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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:58 am 
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DeadZone wrote:
So, in my book, if there's a reasonable chance that someone is going to stab me in the back if I ignore him (regardless of if he stabs me with a knife, sword, spear or even just a sharpened stick) then that person is reasonably distracting and would be demanding enough of my attention that I would grant tactical edge to other people who might also want to stab me.

So yes, at my tables, if you are 20' away from a pikeman, and in melee with someone else, then that someone else will get tac. edge.
EDIT: So will the pikeman. But if you are 15' away, then no, I don't think that the pikeman should grant tac. edge. But that's a bit more gray to me.

Scott


I then have to ask, if I'm a ranged fighter going against a target that I'm reasonably going to shoot with my bow, do I also provide Tactical Edge and enjoy it as well? What if I'm a caster getting ready to cast a spell on you if you divert your attention from me? Do I provide Tactical Edge and enjoy it? I see no difference between the pikeman who can attack anyone within his 20' and a bow fighter able to shoot anyone within the same 20' or so.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:59 am 
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SamhainIA wrote:
Quote:
A slight advantage provided by many circumstances, such as higher ground, greater numbers, a prone target, and more. A Tactical Edge grants a +2 bonus to the attacker’s Attack Roll. No matter how many circumstances are granting a Tactical Edge, the character only enjoys a single +2 bonus.



How bout being outnumbered?


At every table I've been at so far, outnumbered means being outnumbered by adjacent enemies. I've never been at a table yet where the GM has said "outnumbered" in any context other than adjacency. Otherwise, in a fight with 5 PC's and 16 Minions, all the PC's are outnumbered until the minions are down to 5 or less.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:01 am 
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DeadZone wrote:
Now, with respect to whirlwind attack... When I first read this maneuver, the pike immediately came to mind. It's obviously a powerful combination when you abstract out the reality of using a 20' long weapon. However, unless a clarification is made, here's how I intend to handle it at my tables... Anyone within your optimal range is a valid target for the attack. Anyone greater than or less than your optimal range will not be a valid target.

Scott


Do you plan to use this for Sweeping Strikes as well? You can attack 2-3 targets within your optimal range but others are not valid?

John

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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:25 am 
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Harliquinn wrote:
I then have to ask, if I'm a ranged fighter going against a target that I'm reasonably going to shoot with my bow, do I also provide Tactical Edge and enjoy it as well? What if I'm a caster getting ready to cast a spell on you if you divert your attention from me? Do I provide Tactical Edge and enjoy it? I see no difference between the pikeman who can attack anyone within his 20' and a bow fighter able to shoot anyone within the same 20' or so.

The difference, here, is that when an archer is 20' away from me, there's no big pointy arrowhead bobbing and jabbing inches from my vital parts. In theory, the business end of the pike is in my face, causing me to be distracted and worried about how I can keep it out of my spleen. You just don't get that with an arrow that's 20' away from you and could end up anywhere.

(Don't get me wrong, if I knew there was someone 20' away from me wanting to shoot me with an arrow, I'd be worried. But I'm not my character. And given all the other places that the archer might decide to stick his arrow, the guy next to me with a massive hammer swinging at my head would take sufficiently higher priority.)

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:30 am 
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Harliquinn wrote:
DeadZone wrote:
Now, with respect to whirlwind attack... When I first read this maneuver, the pike immediately came to mind. It's obviously a powerful combination when you abstract out the reality of using a 20' long weapon. However, unless a clarification is made, here's how I intend to handle it at my tables... Anyone within your optimal range is a valid target for the attack. Anyone greater than or less than your optimal range will not be a valid target.

Scott


Do you plan to use this for Sweeping Strikes as well? You can attack 2-3 targets within your optimal range but others are not valid?

John
Hadn't thought about it (because it's not as abusive) but logically, yes, it would make sense. I couldn't very well sweep at three targets where two of them are 20' away and one of them is only 10' away. Then again, by that same argument, any tree or post in the way would get in the way of the haft and prevent the sweeping/whirlwind attack, completely. However, there is a line that must be drawn somewhere. And everyone will prefer it in a different place. For me, I'm willing to overlook the obstacles for playability's sake. But the general rule about "optimal" range seems fair to me.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Don't get me wrong I like your suggestion about limiting multi attacks to creatures at optimum range. I'd just like it to be consistent with all multi attack maneuvers.

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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I think the optimal range rule is fair for all multi attack talents.

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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:08 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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A simpler solution is to just ban the sweeping strike\\pike combo. I'd be fine with such a ban if the rules allowed a 10 ft spear.

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There once was a gnome called Oozy,
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But rather than wed,
She drowned him instead,
Now he is a Yaricite toosey!


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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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Eric,

Another option for your character could be to take Weapon Training: Glaive and Adapt Weapon Trick: Long Strike. That would give you the option of Using the Short Spear with Long Strike Speed: +1, 0 Recovery at Tier 1. You'd need 3 ranks in Pole-arms obviously to qualify. It's extra Talents, but gives you what you want. Just a thought.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Using a 20' long weapon in combat?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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That is clearly a short term option that would avoid debate at the gaming table. So I will do that for the mean time. However, it does not solve the underlying mechanical problem.

A lot of folks argue that it isn't realistic to walk into a dungeon with a 20' wooden pole. I agree. But it is equally unrealistic to say that a PC can't simply cut the 20' wooden pole in half with a wood saw or hatchet.

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There once was a gnome called Oozy,
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But rather than wed,
She drowned him instead,
Now he is a Yaricite toosey!


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