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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:09 pm 
Golo: as has been said, hard information about Belisarda is in short supply, but here's what I know/believe:
-Belisarda is the incarnated life force of the world.* Several of her priesthood's spell corroborate this by failing to function if the caster isn't on Arcanis and by directly appealing to Her to manipulate a quality of the planet.

-Belisarda's dedicated priesthood are the Ardahiri -the Lifewardens. They were formerly Ardakene only, though that tradition gradually changed. The Ardahiri have a surprisingly good track record for the promotion of tolerance and diplomacy, and are almost always the voice of patience and reason.

-Prior to being imprisoned by S'koreth the great Sstheric Wizard Belisarda was apparently wandering mad and grief-stricken for the loss of someone -I know of no clues as yet as to who or what. When she was located she was rapidly and randomly polymorphing through the forms of elements (but not Elementals) such as pools of magma, trees, a small lake complete with fish, birds, and wailing in great distress.

-Belisarda's capture was a major Charlie-Foxtrot. Once engaged she tore through a legendary lineup of heroes like they were toilet wet paper, variously pulping, incinerating and exploding them. S'koreth himself nearly perished when she began ripping the oxygen right out of his lungs.
Besides making me chuckle the point of this example is that She has/had very direct, powerful connections to the usual four Elemental sources.

-The Elorii might not be the only known faith of Belisarda. A Gar (formerly Goblins) tribe was found far and deep in the Corlathian mountains who worshipped a powerful Life God and who pre-dated the arrival of the PoM. It's also possible She's popular on other hemispheres of planet; for all the carnage and drama we're only adventuring on one continent. If we had one-hundred-million-dollars laying around we'd have a terrific MMO setting waiting to happen. 8-)

-Belisarda has no Valinor. Duh, right? But also no other equivalents. So if witness some kind of act or manifestation at one of Her holy places there might be a hidden priest around...or you're seeing a personal divine act. Place nice in Mom's house. :lol:

-Belisarda is one of only three deities credited with an action of raw Creation. Herself, Kassegore, and Yig. Notably the Pantheon of Man doesn't take credit for the creation of humans, and humans were (though I could be mixing up the dates) once encountered by the ancient Sstherics during the nadir of their empire.

-There was a document in the last campaign (I want to say errata to the original Codex Arcanis) that cited Belisarda as having the alignment Neutral Good. This caused quite the stir at the time, but was eventually disavowed and forgotten.

-Lastly, the Skinless Schism. The Volurii, the Malfean Elorii of the Fellglade who elected to remain on the borders of the great southern swamp and wage an eternal war on the remains of the Sstheric empire, were met one day by a powerful spirit that claimed to be Belisarda. She said she'd escaped death at the hands of the PoM, but had been skinned alive while making her way^ back to her children. She said she'd gone to the other two nations first, but that they'd rejected her with repulsion and disgust. She won the trust of the Volurii (how is a serious question without an answer) and entreated them to start bringing her skin so she could be healed and walk among them, Her True Children, again.
They complied enthusiastically, and during the Second Battle of Semar she nearly manifested physically when the Malfean forces seized control of a mass sacrificial ritual a Sstheric army was using to call Haullis the Varn God of Slaughter into Arcanis.
Yeah, a true "bring me my brown pants!" Arcanis moment. :o
Gratefully, both armies failed.
The current state of politics between Malfea and the other Eloran nations remains unknown. They were previously distantly allied, though the Malfeans would show no mercy to other Elorii who they believed were associating at all with Humans.

*Yes, this does raise interesting questions about divine boundaries. Where does Yarris start and Belisarda end? Or Saluwe`? If Belisarda can cause natural disasters, can the Gods of the Pantheon intervene?

I once asked Henry what the Sun was called before the PoM arrived. He replied, "the Sun." I feel as though my questions is unanswered, but it does raise another interesting question: how much of a divine presence is invasive? Is Illir a shroud that interposes himself between the natural Sun of Arcanis's known solar system, or do they harmonize together into once concept? If there were Sun worshippers did Illir get them automatically when He happened?

^This memory is rather imperfect as to whether she was skinned by the PoM, or by Infernals/Other Things in the spaces inbetween.


Last edited by ZCaslar on Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:17 pm 
Nierite wrote:
I don't think the Varn being 'evil' makes them gods instead of Gods. I think it is an objective measure of power which makes them the 'little-g' gods. Illiir, Kassagore, and Belisarda are Gods in that they could probably bitch-slap the Varn in the same way that a full grown man could dominate a toddler in a straight-up fistfight. That said, a toddler could still destroy a mosquito if they wanted to, which would be the comparison of the Varn to the mortals (and Elorii) of Arcanis.


I don't think I suggested being a bastard made one a deity -else the Sorcerer King would be in a shoving match with Illir for Biggest Human Overgod. :lol:

Indeed, your points illustrate my own. Illir's actions span a wide range of moral interpretations though whether or not Arcanis currently has concrete moral absolutes is an open questions.
It did when 3.5 D&D was the underlying mechanics, but we've moved on since then.

The Valinor also sometimes work at the behest of the human Gods, but not necessarily at the actual command of them. Manetas, the fallen Pride of Illir, is a famous example, and he probably fought other Illirite Valinor by the end. Does "Falling" change a Valinor's prerogatives? Was Manetas really doing Illir's will, or what he was sure Illir would want done?

The Gods of Man are Silent, and into that void goes the uncertainty and zealotry of angels, priests, and prophets.

Edit: to clarify for all involved the Varn are known to be Evil, and Only Evil. That's part of their minor/hero god status. It's believed that Arcanis is a place where Ascension can happen directly. Hence their interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:34 pm 
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I don't think Henry misled or didn't answer at all. Illiir is not the burning star of the Arcanis solar system, but he is the God associated with light, so the sun is worshipped as an aspect of Illiir. I'm personally on the side of Illiir being the Light of Truth, banishing the dark, illusions, etc than light itself, but that is a dogma argument.

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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:00 pm 
Sure, makes sense. That itch feels unscratched still, but whatever.

The 'galactic' cosmology of Arcanis is another subset of mysteries unto itself. There are the moons (Aperio, Viridis, another?), but what about other celestial bodies?
Is a given sphere alone in space? It's pretty well accepted that to each setting (Arcanis, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, homebrew) goes it's own plane, but rarely does that idea seem to extend out in the galaxy. Does every plane also have Space?
Were the Celestial Giants more thematically akin to Aliens than Giants? Could you escape Arcanis into the skies and fly to elsewhere*? Would the Gods come with? Would Belisarda?

What if Belisarda is 'active' because she's a seeded intelligence set to keep Arcanis healthy until her creators return to get comfortable? :shock: Could there be multiple Belisardas?
If there are Creators and they return, do we fight them? Do we really have a choice?

Just in case there isn't enough confusion on the ground, there's a whole new ocean of possibilities looming above it all.

*Heh heh heh. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:27 am 
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ZCaslar wrote:
...snip...Is a given sphere alone in space? It's pretty well accepted that to each setting (Arcanis, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, homebrew) goes it's own plane, but rarely does that idea seem to extend out in the galaxy. Does every plane also have Space? Were the Celestial Giants more thematically akin to Aliens than Giants? Could you escape Arcanis into the skies and fly to elsewhere*? Would the Gods come with? Would Belisarda? ...snip


The onion model of the universe set out by the great sage Nerius posits layers of creation. In the center/first layer a raw cosmic energy that pulses; second layer out the elemental planes (fire, earth etc) which is where elementals and the the elorii Elemental Lords come from; third layer is the mortal realm which contains Arcanis; the fourth layer out are Celestial realms that are either the worlds of Infernals or of beneficent beings; finally a tattered 5th layer is full of what I'll call "elder/tentacled horrors." There are tiny "bubbles" in each layer and these are different worlds.

So yes, at least in theory you can fly out of Arcanis and if you have air food and water you can travel somewhere else ... though if you can make it in a human lifespan is an open question. Most people hop from world to world by the network of Gates. This is how the First Imperium spread to different worlds. In the last campaign players traveled to different mortal worlds at least twice. Once in the module Drinking Deeply from the Chalice of Midnight and again in one of the modules linked to that weird dimensional fortress out in the desert...I've forgotten the name of it but James Zweirs wrote it.

It is a question of interest to me if the Celestial Giants originate from the beneficent worlds on the 4th layer, or the "wilds" of the 3rd layer. Regardless it is clear to me that they have their own ways of world hoping.

If you go to a world with no sun then, yes it appears you have passed beyond the influence of Illiir. Still Cants work fine in most cases (because you are manipulating cosmic legos) ... exceptions such as certain spells of Belisarda are noted.

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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:23 am 
Might have been "The Flowering of the Blood Vine."
I would like to know more about the ultimate or (hopefully) ongoing fate of the Sand Apophics.


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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
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Nierite wrote:
I don't think Henry misled or didn't answer at all. Illiir is not the burning star of the Arcanis solar system, but he is the God associated with light, so the sun is worshipped as an aspect of Illiir. I'm personally on the side of Illiir being the Light of Truth, banishing the dark, illusions, etc than light itself, but that is a dogma argument.

I think you are wrong here. What if Illiir is the physical embodiment of the Sun, as Belisarda is the planet Arcanis.

He has been ever since the PoM "defied paradox" and showed up at the being of time and killed off the Khafaree gods.

Couple of things I always wonder about that time travel thing. What version of them showed up then? Did they stay there from that point and are older than creation? Or did they jump back to a different point of time? Are there versions of the PoM that exist from this time? Do the two versions interact?

Time travel makes my head hurt. =/


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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Deviknyte wrote:
Nierite wrote:
I don't think Henry misled or didn't answer at all. Illiir is not the burning star of the Arcanis solar system, but he is the God associated with light, so the sun is worshipped as an aspect of Illiir. I'm personally on the side of Illiir being the Light of Truth, banishing the dark, illusions, etc than light itself, but that is a dogma argument.

I think you are wrong here. What if Illiir is the physical embodiment of the Sun, as Belisarda is the planet Arcanis.

He has been ever since the PoM "defied paradox" and showed up at the being of time and killed off the Khafaree gods.

Couple of things I always wonder about that time travel thing. What version of them showed up then? Did they stay there from that point and are older than creation? Or did they jump back to a different point of time? Are there versions of the PoM that exist from this time? Do the two versions interact?

Time travel makes my head hurt. =/


You think that's bad? Nerius the Younger suggested that the different layers of the universe is really the same layer just differentiated by time. If true when you are summoning an elemental you are reaching back in time. When summoning an infernal you are reaching forward. The ultimate fate of Arcanis in this model is to become either an Infernal or Celestial domain. They burned him as a heretic of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:34 pm 

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Hello,

val Holryn wrote:
They burned him as a heretic of course.


And rightly so! Whoever heard of such outlandish nonsense!

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 Post subject: Re: Priests of the Elemental Lords
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:57 pm 

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Oh dear. I guess Oozy's little sidebar conversation about how the Elemental Lords are actually UNDEAD and exist as shades on another plane at the Arcanicon LARP last year will eventually get him in some hot water. Oh well. Might as well toss in how the VARN are the shades to which Oozy is referring too.

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