Josh
You're good to go then! You're right, I was remembering the example that mentioned 15 ranks gave you a +10 for other knowledge skills.

John

Generally the expert isn't going to be as good at either choice as someone specializing in it. An experts arcanum is usually going to be 1-2 points behind a cater and his choice of maneuvers is usually less than a warrior, and his weapon skills are usually 1-2 points behind. However you are right in that they can be a little worse than a specialist in several areas.

John

Well since we have gone pretty far afailed from the main topic, I think Experts make better divine casters than characters created with the divine archtype, it just limits the backgrounds you can take.

I think Expert gives too much in the way of skill points martial gives a total of 5 , and arcane give a total of 5 and divine 4

Expert is 6 and you can put them almost anywhere ( more selections than any other archtype)
AND expert you get 2 skill talents that pretty much skip most requirements to take them. with the interaction on how adaptable works .... yeah its REALLY good

If you want to be mainly a fighter, Martial is better for weapon and armor proficiencies and maneuvers and if you do want to be a primary caster, the others are actually better in terms of getting good spells faster and being able to have more variety of what you do with that magic.

John

I differ in opinion, like i said

I'm curious what options the Expert gives that makes a better Divine Caster than a Divine Archetype? Granted, Experts can allow for a broader Caster / <something> combo with their expanded options, but to truly be a focused caster, I'd be interested to hear more.

John

I played a lot with the Expert Archetype, and Tukufu derives from the Expert. I've developed strong opinions about them.

I agree with Josh that there are a lot of good skill talents to poach at creation. And of course your skill advancement rocks...the best of the 4 archetypes (both from the ability to advance whatever skills you want all three times & from the special pick two skills and instantly gain (2xTeir) in ranks option.

On the other hand I don't think the Expert is an overpowered slam dunk either. Probably your armor proficiency isn't great. And IMO you talent advancement is the worst of the four archetypes.

Consider: If you are a Martial character you get to take 2 combat talents (and 2 MT talents): These talents make you better at fighting and thrashing foes! If you are Arcane, you get 2 arcane talents. Congrats you just picked up a way to make your existing spells act like taffy as you adapt and modify them in ways others just can't. But if you are an Expert then you are getting 2 skill talents. Skill talents are cool but generally* aren't something that will define or improve the core of what your character does (especially if your core is something like melee combat, Arcane Spell Casting)

*Okay two exceptions are Leadership and Loyal Companion which can be upgraded by Tier ... and rock. Otherwise most skill talents don't really stack with each other. While "Quick" rocks, once you have it it doesn't build with anything...like integrating your old Martial techniques with the new one you picked up.

Finally: And if you are a spell caster (like Tukufu) then one of your generic "pick 2 talents" has to go into Arcane (or Divine) Spell Casting. Leaving me just 1 talent per tier for things like bloodranks or continuing weapon Mastery ... or anything else. On the other hand Tukufu attacks just fine with a weapon while his strain bleeds off. For that reason alone I prefer Expert to Arcane (and to a lesser extent Divine).

In comparing advancements, another thing you might want to consider is that while the expert is spending 3 advancements to get skills, the casting archtypes are spending 4 to get less choices (and divine archtype actually getting points they cant spend)

but in general i agree with your position eric

So you could be an Expert Awakened Scion, taking Prestidigitation as your Archetype Talent and then get all the Universal spells?

well my opinion is no...

if you hold of on taking your talent until your in the talent phase, then its in the talent phase and not the archtype phase.

but again this is a grey area, so your mileage may vary