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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Cajun Country
It was a clarification of intent. Just in case you guys don't know StatMonkey is the lead rules designer for the system. His intent was that that background be someone who was awakened only a week or two before game play starts.

That being said it along with any other rules changes that haven't made it into the official errata, lets consider them intended errata, should be documented here. There are 2 good spots for it already, the Ask a StatMonkey and Official Answers to Rules Questions. I'd say this one should probably go into the latter as the Ask a Statmonkey is more a discussion of rule changes and questions.


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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Michigan
archangel wrote:
It was a clarification of intent. Just in case you guys don't know StatMonkey is the lead rules designer for the system. His intent was that that background be someone who was awakened only a week or two before game play starts.

That being said it along with any other rules changes that haven't made it into the official errata, lets consider them intended errata, should be documented here. There are 2 good spots for it already, the Ask a StatMonkey and Official Answers to Rules Questions. I'd say this one should probably go into the latter as the Ask a Statmonkey is more a discussion of rule changes and questions.


I understand that. I fully accept his authority for issuing errata on the documents he wrote. Its just that I was under the impression from when I read the thread awhile back that it was no where near that cut and dried. I'm pretty sure the thread ended with him "thinking about it." (though which way he was thinking about: to change or not to change I'm not sure) It seems to me that even the rules designers can use being able to talk about something and get player input in the forums without it being word of god, so it seems safest that it not be considered "official" until it makes it into and official document of some sort that people know they should reference, rather than trying to keep up on anything ever discussed on these boards. The "ask the stat monkey thread" is certainly a start in the official chain, but I would still not necessarily expect all players to have read that, while I would expect them to have read (or be able to show them a printed copy of) the errata.

And while I now understand it was his intent when it was written, it isn't how it is written currently. I can certainly understand them changing the wording/requirements, as I do think it is probably an overpowered background in the options it opens up. But to have background restrict talent options like this seems to require a very large exception to the rule of how things are done in character creation, since you are essentially moving step six until after step nine. Oddly, it ties into the other discussion up-thread about how the two talents (ASC and prestidigitation) not only need to be taken together in character creation, but also in the same step. That implies that each step is a different slice in time. This requirement that you need to not do something in step 9 to qualify in step 6, seems to imply that everything in character creation "happens at once," which conflicts with the talent ruling above.

Again, not really a big deal either way, but it is important to clarify since there is nothing in the background expressing the immediacy of the awakening, just the method.

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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Cajun Country
Oh I get it. I was the one who pushed for the rules consolidation thread on the old boards. The thing is there are quite a few rules clarifications and changes with errata being irregular. It makes sense to have it documented how it is being used for the living game and how it should be interpreted for less official games.


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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
Toni, you have to box Pedro around the ears to get things done then, and I fully encourage you to do so.

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Oswald val'Inares V, The Seeker of the Val'Inares
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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1980
Location: Portland OR
toodeep wrote:
archangel wrote:
It was a clarification of intent. Just in case you guys don't know StatMonkey is the lead rules designer for the system. His intent was that that background be someone who was awakened only a week or two before game play starts...snip...


I understand that. I fully accept his authority for issuing errata on the documents he wrote. Its just that I was under the impression from when I read the thread awhile back that it was no where near that cut and dried. I'm pretty sure the thread ended with him "thinking about it." (though which way he was thinking about: to change or not to change I'm not sure) It seems to me that even the rules designers can use being able to talk about something and get player input in the forums without it being word of god...


Normally I would support Toodeep's point of view. If something doesn't always work the way you think it does...check with your judge ahead of time and adjust your play based on the answer. I generally trust Arcanis judges to run a fun table even if I don't agree on all their rules interpretations. But the stakes are higher in this case than a usual exercise in how a talent works. I think anyone looking at this should bear in mind a non-trivial portion of the judges out there think this is an illegal build. Like Josh I remember it as the Stat Monkey saying a variation of, "no spell casting period. You literally just awoke with mental powers."

I might warn a player the first time I saw such a build. I would eventually disallow such a character to be run at tables I judge. Of course this could be changed by an official rules update.

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:32 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
That's also how I remember the outcome of the discussion on the old boards - StatMonkey pretty clearly said no spellcasting (including Prestidigitation) at all during chargen.

I really wish they'd been able to recover the old boards. There were a lot of good discussions and topics on there (including some official errata like this and some strongly considering maybe errata).

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Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:12 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Michigan
val Holryn wrote:
(snip) I think anyone looking at this should bear in mind a non-trivial portion of the judges out there think this is an illegal build. Like Josh I remember it as the Stat Monkey saying a variation of, "no spell casting period. You literally just awoke with mental powers."

I might warn a player the first time I saw such a build. I would eventually disallow such a character to be run at tables I judge. Of course this could be changed by an official rules update.


This is my exact concern, and as someone who only very sporadically views the boards, and someone who doesn't expect players to do so, I know I would be annoyed as a player to occasionally run into people who think I am a cheat because I followed the rules as written in the book. Especially support the GM has is, "I think one of the authors said something about that on the boards."

BTW, it is my recollection that Stat Monkey did start with the hard line, "no spell casting period" idea, but moderated throughout the thread. He may have been thinking about moderating from that hardline to allowing spellcasting in step 9, instead of moderating from the book to not allow spell casting, but I distinctly remember the thread ending with some "I'll have to think about it" in some regard, and considering it was just in a discussion thread, I thus considered it undecided.

Full disclosure, I have an undisciplined psion character. I built it without casting in character creation because of Stat Monkey's post, but don't expect others to have done so. In reality, the talents I take in step 9, if I can't take ASC there, I just take further up build instead of ASC, so by about 1.6 or 1.7 there is virtually no difference in build except I don't have the advanced universal spells. (there is a temporary slow down because I have to take prestidigitation separate from ASC, but it is minor). If this were resolved that we can follow the rules as written, I would correct my character build to reflect that, but at this time I prefer to be conservative with the rules. I just don't expect others to be, and could see this causing trouble and ill will in players.

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AKA Kavaris, awakened "Human" from the Hinterlands, psionic transmutation specialist, adventurer, and no one important


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 Post subject: Re: Two questions re: Sarishan Sorc-Priests and Psionics
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Miami Florida
wilcoxon wrote:
That's also how I remember the outcome of the discussion on the old boards - StatMonkey pretty clearly said no spellcasting (including Prestidigitation) at all during chargen.


THIS is correct...

BTW, All my focus is now on the errata/FAQ update which I will be sending to the crew for internal review by mid week (I need to add a few things)

Once PCI has a review the campaign staff will have a look.. then I'll post it on the boards for a 10 day review period ...

after which I will lay it all out and make it official

Don't worry.... update incoming

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Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
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