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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
Southernskies wrote:
Having recently been on the receiving end from an un-errata'd adventure, I understand why.

Taking 37 Stamina (*without* any die exploding) completely breaks the combat system.
Smite Infidel is only once a combat, except for val’Virdans.


Smite Heretic's +2 speed +3 recovery for a d6 (average +3.5) additional damage is sub-optimal in my opinion. Even at Passive Arcanum of 30 it is still only +2 speed +6 recovery for a d12 (average 6.5) damage. If you are playing a divine caster with no maneuver yet a high Melee Skill, I can see the effectiveness, otherwise that extra recovery is slowing you down too much (not counting fate point pops).


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 922
deviknyte wrote:
Southernskies wrote:
Having recently been on the receiving end from an un-errata'd adventure, I understand why.

Taking 37 Stamina (*without* any die exploding) completely breaks the combat system.

+2 speed +3 recovery for a d6 (average +3.5) additional damage is sub-optimal in my opinion. Even at Passive Arcanum of 30 it is still only +2 speed +6 recovery for a d12 (average 6.5) damage. If you are playing a divine caster with no maneuver yet a high Melee Skill, I can see the effectiveness, otherwise that extra recovery is slowing you down too much (not counting fate point pops).


On its own its fine. In combination with a couple of other things, it most definately is not fine. and Recovery/Strain doesn't matter if you get one-hit killed.

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LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.1
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 4
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:12 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Superior, WI
Eh, you can ignore my question. I found what I was looking at and they don't stack. Thanks for the answers!

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toni Brill

Elyse val'Tensen, Royal Marine of Milandir and Knight Protector of Tanin 3.1
and
Ryzxeien 1.6


Last edited by Elyse val'Tensen on Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
Elyse val'Tensen wrote:
Eh, you can ignore my question. I found what I was looking at and they don't attack. Thanks for the answers!

Stack not attack right? What two things were you talking about?


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:12 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Superior, WI
deviknyte wrote:
Elyse val'Tensen wrote:
Eh, you can ignore my question. I found what I was looking at and they don't attack. Thanks for the answers!

Stack not attack right? What two things were you talking about?


Sorry. Stack not attack. Autocorrect issue. :-)

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Toni Brill

Elyse val'Tensen, Royal Marine of Milandir and Knight Protector of Tanin 3.1
and
Ryzxeien 1.6


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:50 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:01 am
Posts: 84
A one hit vanquish is fine if it's only likely to come up once per combat: you don't have negative hit points so a quick heal/leadership other way to gain some stamina back and you are right back in the fight.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1980
Location: Portland OR
deviknyte wrote:
...snip...
It is one maneuver. No stacking issue. It deals both static damage bonuses. Stacking never comes into play, because there is only one source of damage the advanced maneuver Powerful Might Thrust (are whatever you want to name it).

The same as if you combined two damage spells into one Advanced Spell. It deals both halves of the damage (defenses pending) no stacking issue.


The example given on page 256 in the book DOES NOT work the same way that spells combine? Why? I dunno. It would be easier if they did. Here is the text:

book pg 256 wrote:
Example of an Advanced Maneuver
Mighty Swing + Sweeping Strike
Category: Advanced
Attack: Avoidance (Prowess)
Speed (Recovery): +2 (4)
Range: Melee
Effect: Weapon +5 damage. You may perform an attack against any two opponents within melee reach; each attack must be rolled independently. You may attack an additional opponent within range once you reach +6 with any Melee skill specialization.


I note that the damage is Weapon +5. If it was a an advanced spell it'd be 2x Weapon +5. They issued errata for this example. They correct the spd & rec cost but don't touch on the damage component.

errata wrote:
Page: 256 (Errata)
Under Example of an Advanced Maneuver change the
Maneuver's speed to Speed (Recover): +1 (5)
Under Category, speed & recovery change the first
paragraph as follows:
Speed & Recovery: Use the slowest maneuver’s Speed cost and apply the faster maneuver’s Speed or Recovery, whichever is higher, as additional Recovery.
add the following sentence to the end of the Effects entry: When creating an advanced martial maneuver that grants multiple attribute dice, only one die may explode. Also you may not combine maneuvers with a Push speed.


I reiterate that as I understand it you only get the best parts of the combined maneuver. Unlike a spell I believe you don't get "double damage." Am I the only one who does this this way? Should I be adding extra dice when I hit with a Mighty Sweeping Strike?

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am
Posts: 2046
You are correct, you get weapon damage only once, but any 'weapon damage adds' for both maneuvers as they combine for a single 'effect'. Keep in mind you can lose 'part' of the benefits of the advanced maneuver if you fail to bypass one of your target's defenses in the case of a dual-defense advanced maneuver. So if you stun someone by getting over their fortitude, you can do damage with one part of the advanced maneuver if you hit their Avoidance but fail to stun them if you don't get over their Fortitude.

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
@Eric: Hmm... I've never seen anyone think they would get weapon (including attribute) x2 for an advanced maneuver. But I guess you are right, it doesn't say you only apply weapon once, although the example proves that and the errata talks about none+weapon.

My point is the following maneuver would look like this:

Quote:
Powerful Thrust + Mighty Swing
You wreck your opponent.
Requirements: Athletics 3 and Melee (Balanced) 3
Category: Advanced
Attack: Avoidance (Pr)
Speed (Recovery): +1 (4)
Range: Melee (1 Target)
Effect: Weapon +5 +Passive Might; you must move 5’ toward your target before performing this attack.


You would get the +5 damage and the +Passive Might damage. Although they are both static bonuses to damage Powery Mightful Strike is one maneuver. When you declare you are using them together as an advanced manevuer, it is one source of bonuses.

Quote:
Vital Strike + Devastating Blow
Requirements: Melee (any) +12
Category: Advanced
Attack: Avoidance (Mi)
Speed (Recovery): +2 (2)
Range: Melee
Effect: Weapon; you deal an additional (Mi) die of damage and you deal an additional weapon damage die, suffering a -4 penalty to your Avoidance until your next action. For examples, if you are using a weapon that deals 1d8 (Mi) on damage, roll 2d8 (Mi) (Mi) instead; or if you are using a weapon that deals 1d6 (Qu) on damage, roll 2d6 (Qu) (Mi) instead.


In this example you gain 2 additional dice to damage. A might die and a weapon die, both are still additional dice, but stack because this is one maneuver and not two.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks and Martial Techniques
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 922
deviknyte wrote:
@Eric: Hmm... I've never seen anyone think they would get weapon (including attribute) x2 for an advanced maneuver. But I guess you are right, it doesn't say you only apply weapon once, although the example proves that and the errata talks about none+weapon.

My point is the following maneuver would look like this:

Quote:
Powerful Thrust + Mighty Swing
You wreck your opponent.
Requirements: Athletics 3 and Melee (Balanced) 3
Category: Advanced
Attack: Avoidance (Pr)
Speed (Recovery): +1 (4)
Range: Melee (1 Target)
Effect: Weapon +5 +Passive Might; you must move 5’ toward your target before performing this attack.


You would get the +5 damage and the +Passive Might damage. Although they are both static bonuses to damage Powery Mightful Strike is one maneuver. When you declare you are using them together as an advanced manevuer, it is one source of bonuses.


Powerful Thrust = 'static' + 'combat manoeuvre'
Mighty Swing = 'static' + 'combat manoeuvre'
therefore combining them only gives you the highest bonus of +5.

The secondary effects may still make the combo worthwhile.

_________________
LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.1
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 4
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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