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 Post subject: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:41 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Australia
Hi All

Just trying to track down some things I remember reading on Elorii culture, specifically when Elorii are born

From The Banished (3.5 adventure) it mentions that one of the concerns the Beroken had was that of another bloodline being born to their community. This suggests the child born does not have to match the bloodline of the parents.

Following up from this I remember reading somewhere on Elorii children being raised not by the parents but by the foster parents (or groups) of elorii that match their bloodline, but I cant remember where.

In the 5e core book it states that bloodlines can not interbreed as they are effectively different species. This would mean that the parents must be the same bloodline, but the child could be different, depending on what soul came from the Ourumar.

The piece of information I was trying to find a source for was that a Elorii, when they are reborn, return as the same bloodline they were previously. Basically the soul can not change bloodlines. I am sure I read it somewhere but can't find it.

Also I did discover a piece of information I had forgotten while re-reading The Banished.

SPOILER SPACE











Ravan’Tindal mines contains a World gate

"The chamber is dominated by a giant-sized version of what appears to be a Portal of Anshar, but this is a portal unlike any you have ever seen. The material that forms the circular portal itself is made of a strange gleaming metal which hums softly. Floating just a few feet from the base of the dais upon which it rests, the portal’s perimeter is smooth, with nary a sigil or rune anywhere upon its surface.

Two large black obelisks stand on either side, scored with white pictographs and hieroglyphs. After a short examination, you see that it tells the story of a group of men, even taller than the Cyclops of Saam Ur who arrived one day and began to build an even more enormous and elaborate version of the portal that stands before you.

These giants also taught the Cyclops basic mathematics and engineering while they built their gate (the hieroglyphs translate this into World Gate should there be anyone with the ability to correctly translate them) even teaching them the secret of how to build a smaller version.

Eventually the giants left but said that they were but the vanguard of their people and that others of their kind would one day return.

‘In Peace they arrived and in Peace they left once more to the stars.’ "

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Marco val'Sheem - Master Sword Sage
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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:42 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Dean,

Not sure I can add much unfortunately but I thought I'd mention that Henry has, in the past, retconned details written in older modules/source books (i.e. val breed true). Elorii having children of other sub-groups may not be canon. I don't recall reading anything about it one way or another.

Thanks for the info you included, I had forgotten about that as well. Sounds like a reference to Celestial Giants to me. I am definitely hoping that as we get closer to having T4/T5 heroes, there might be an opportunity to explore the world gates a bit more.

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aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


Last edited by acurrier on Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:51 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Hello,

Elorii cannot interbreed nor can they be reborn into another bloodline.

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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:37 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks for taking the time to clarify this Henry.

This actually makes me think about the viability of the Eloran race as a whole. We know that there are a finite number of Eloran souls available for rebirth, it is interesting to know that those souls are restricted into certain bloodlines.

While attempting to avoid spoilers, we know that Eloran souls can be lost permanently (Kurenthe, turning Elorii into undead, certain other storyline events). I had originally assumed that all Eloran bloodlines pulled from the same 'pool' of souls for rebirth. Now that we know this is not the case, the situation seems far more dire for the Elorii. It would not be inconceivable for an entire Eloran bloodline to disappear, if their soul pool shrank enough.

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Akira Currier
aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Master of the Incandescent Flame (Martial 3.6)
aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.6)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Not everything is as it seems.

More will be revealed in future adventures from unexpected sources.

Stay tuned.

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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:20 am 
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PCIHenry wrote:
Hello,

Elorii cannot interbreed nor can they be reborn into another bloodline.


Is this a change of canon with the 5e setting? I seem to recall that the story in Eldest Sons (of the defense of Seremas from Ymandragore and the Birth of Markeleos) did not follow this rule.

Still that seems clear enough. I'll make a note of that fact...

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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:25 am 
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In answer to the other question, in the original Codex elorii children were raised by their parents till they reached age 10 or so and physically mature (they mature at an accelerated rate, and are guided mentally by past memories...). The elorran childhood is brief and probably treasured.

After 10ish they then live with might be described as a "fraternity"of other young adults of their bloodline until they are old and experienced enough (around 50) to be let loose on their own.

But maybe that information is now dated...

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:19 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
Posts: 193
val Holryn wrote:
I seem to recall that the story in Eldest Sons (of the defense of Seremas from Ymandragore and the Birth of Markeleos) did not follow this rule.

I thought the same thing because Markelos (a berokene baby found in the water) means "Born of Stone and Fire". I thought his parents (Folgos and Kethiel) were Marokene and Kelekene. But the story never actually says their lineage. And in Markelos's NPC write up for Beyond the Threshold of Never it is stated he is a Kelekene that looks like a Marokene.
So his parents could have been both Berokene or both Kelekene (depending on which info about his lineage is canon). And the meaning behind his name is more a reference to the magic defense stone the Ymandrakes brought and magical fire the Elorii attacked the Ymandrakes with.

Also it may not matter as he may be dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:17 am 
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The Vault wrote:
val Holryn wrote:
Also it may not matter as he [Markelos] may be dead.


I have hopes he may turn up in the future. He could have been out playing "Tag" with Ymandrakes when everything went down.

On the broader issue its potentially matters quite a bit. It has been my understanding that elorii could interbreed and that the soul of the child might or might not match the parents. If this is a change I wouldn't have have known that if you hadn't brought this post. Thanks.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Elorii Social structure
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:30 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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Sorry for my lack of clarity. I meant his lineage may not matter as he may be dead.

I agree the issue is very important because I had the exact same understanding of how Elorii had children. I didn't even read that entry in the 5e core book. But at least the entry is there and new players won't have the same misunderstanding.

Coming back to the OP.

Ravan'Tindal doesn't contain a World Gate. That is a a larger and older version of an Ansharan Gate.
We could call it a Giant's Gate.
It does connect to the rest of the Ansharan Portal network, as it allowed the players to escape if need be.
But in the description you copied it specifically mentions
Quote:
it tells the story of a group of men, even taller than the Cyclops of Saam Ur who arrived one day and began to build an even more enormous and elaborate version of the portal that stands before you.

That larger and more elaborate gate would be the World Gate.
One thing I always wondered about the World Gate is if the description from To Peel the Veil of Lightness and Dark (described as a tube not a ring) was replaced by the description from Condemnation (described as a large ring), or if there are two World Gates.
Any word Henry if the change of description is a retcon? You did write both modules.

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