Last visit was: It is currently Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:09 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:18 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1976
Location: Portland OR
So...recent alleged revelations of the val'Holryn family have lit a fire under me to finally build a Knight of the Order of the Phoenix as my back up character behind Tukufu. This character, Szymon val'Holryn, will emulate the val'Mehan bloodline (for at least three reasons including a desire for him to be eligible story-wise to eventually/potentially learn the rite to bond mastiff & knight).

Looking at the mechanics I have a question. Can I take the Tier IV bloodline talent as a prerequisite of getting to the capstone Tier 5 Talent (Master of the Arcanum)? The conflict is listed below:

From the Knights of the Phoenix: they get a special Mastiff as a bonded companion and "may never have any Loyal Companion from any source other than the Mastif granted by the Rite of the Phoenix Talent."

From val'Mehan: The (only) Tier IV val'Mehan talent (Infernal Servant) gives you an infernal as a Loyal Companion.

Is it possible to take the bloodline talent without claiming the infernal servant? Or is this build capped at the Tier 3 bloodline talent?

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:28 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
I'm nobody official but I would say you could definitely take the tier 4 ability. Story-wise (not sure about mechancis), you could even use it to claim the infernal companion but then you would be immediately kicked out of the Order of the Phoenix (at a minimum) for breaking your oath.

_________________
Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:12 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1976
Location: Portland OR
I am not interested in being kicked out of the Order....I just want to reach the capstone ability of the val'Mehan bloodline talents at Tier V. In a perfect world (for my PC) he'd be able to apply the talent toward advancing the hound ... But I already know that's not legal.

My question is can I take the IV Bloodline talent but not claim the mechanical benefit (using it as a "blank") except to meet the prerequisite of the Tier V bloodline?

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:58 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2469
Location: Central Alberta
To the last one, I vote on "No." Talents represent milestones in a Hero's life, for better or for worse, and you can't just say ". . . nah, I'm good!"

To the actual rules of how this would work, my thoughts are that there is no T4 and T5 bloodline for you, in much the same way that there are probably very few Holyrn with Dellenov powers within the Order. However, rules questions are better directed towards Matt or PCI staff (and I'm the question is noodling around in there as soon as this topic is seen).

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:58 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Well...this is a bit of a sticky wicket. From a purely mechanical perspective you cannot take the T4 bloodline power. For 2 reasons: 1) the Order of the Phoenix path states you cannot have any other Loyal Companions and 2) you cannot have more than 1 Loyal Companion. Plus, you cannot really say "I am taking a Talent, but not taking it".

However, from a story perspective, I am guessing the the OotP has had to deal with situations where Val'Mehan (or, especially, Val'Holryn with Mehan powers) have joined the ranks. What do they do in this case? That is a Henry question. Obviously, this needs an errata, but the rules answer will hinge on his story answer.

_________________
Matthew Flinn
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Rules Liaison

-general creator of mayhem and discord
-Exceptional quality PCI Minion and indentured servant
-Lord of the Hummingbirds


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:15 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1976
Location: Portland OR
Yeah the story angle is weird and it's a corner case.

To be clear I am not looking for a second companion (or even really a mechanical benefit beyond eventually getting to to Tier V bloodline ability).

I had the idea that the tier IV bloodline ability might be interpreted that you gain the ability to summon an infernal servant but that a character could choose not to exercise that ability. I agree, as RAW it's currently a barrier.

I guess I'll wait and see what further thoughts develop.

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:53 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 911
Undead Hounds and apply the usual stacking/source rules?

_________________
LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.1
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 4
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:53 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:59 am
Posts: 811
Location: Ontario, Canada
Or apply infernal characteristics to the hound? AR and spiked tail perhaps?

_________________
Akira Currier
aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Master of the Incandescent Flame (Martial 3.6)
aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.6)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:14 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
val Holryn wrote:
Yeah the story angle is weird and it's a corner case.

To be clear I am not looking for a second companion (or even really a mechanical benefit beyond eventually getting to to Tier V bloodline ability).

I had the idea that the tier IV bloodline ability might be interpreted that you gain the ability to summon an infernal servant but that a character could choose not to exercise that ability. I agree, as RAW it's currently a barrier.

I guess I'll wait and see what further thoughts develop.


This combo is odd. The other instance I can recall that is sort of similar is Ulfilan Ranger which grants an air elemental as Loyal Companion but that one explicitly says it replaces any already-existing companion.

I like Akira's suggestion of applying an Infernal trait or two to the hound but that's definitely not strictly RAW (no idea if it would fit story-wise).

_________________
Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Knight of the Phoenix & Val Mehan bloodline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:28 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1976
Location: Portland OR
LOL. Szymon does not want an infernal hound! What would the good people of Tralia say? ... Or at least he does not want a hound that is any more "infernal" than the bound mastiff is to start off with (...which *everyone* knows is really a smart warm hearted puppy despite the limb crushing jaws...)

The bound mastiffs of the Order of the Phoenix are already magical ... at a guess binding a demon to one or some how turning them infernal shouldn't even possible.

But thanks for the ideas!

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Last edited by val Holryn on Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric, PCI_StatMonkey Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki