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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of Spell Lists by Caster
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:38 pm 
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toodeep wrote:
I would put the tier II heritage spell, "aspect of the beast" under a mobility spell as well, since it is the earliest form of good flight that allows spell casting while in effect. Very powerful heritage spell in that role.


Good catch. You can tell I don't play val'Dellenovs. :D Going to be a popular spell for Shamans though in Tier 3!

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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of Spell Lists by Caster
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:43 am 

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val Holryn wrote:
toodeep wrote:
I would put the tier II heritage spell, "aspect of the beast" under a mobility spell as well, since it is the earliest form of good flight that allows spell casting while in effect. Very powerful heritage spell in that role.


Good catch. You can tell I don't play val'Dellenovs. :D Going to be a popular spell for Shamans though in Tier 3!


As a player of a shaman I can say it is THE spell I am waiting for in tier III. But that's because I love spells that increase options/opportunities rather than damage. I'm still in awe of (and thankful for) your use of clairvoyance in Savona....

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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of Spell Lists by Caster
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:49 pm 
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I've always thought of Debuff as a category of spells separate from Buffs. Debuff would be offensive spells that don't directly do damage to a target, but reduce their effectiveness or increase the effectiveness of your ally's targets against them. The main reason I consider these separate is that they typically have an attack roll or saving throw, whereas straight "Buff" spells are cast on allies and don't usually require any type of roll to succeed in casting.

I also wouldn't necessary consider Buff / Protection as two categories, as Buffs/Protection are spells cast on allies to improve their abilities or protect them from harm.

Good examples are "Diminish Senses", "Ghostly Legion" and "Brittle Bones".

John

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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of Spell Lists by Caster
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:40 am 
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Harliquinn wrote:
I've always thought of Debuff as a category of spells separate from Buffs. Debuff would be offensive spells that don't directly do damage to a target, but reduce their effectiveness or increase the effectiveness of your ally's targets against them. The main reason I consider these separate is that they typically have an attack roll or saving throw, whereas straight "Buff" spells are cast on allies and don't usually require any type of roll to succeed in casting.

I also wouldn't necessary consider Buff / Protection as two categories, as Buffs/Protection are spells cast on allies to improve their abilities or protect them from harm.

Good examples are "Diminish Senses", "Ghostly Legion" and "Brittle Bones".

John


I hear what you are saying. To me Debuff equals Control. Diminish Senses is a classic Control spell ... "Haha! You can' see me, I've just limited your options!" But you could tweak the names of the Categories and in doing so it might influence what spells get listed where.

While I think Diminish Senses is a (classic) Control Spells (it inhibits your ability to attack) ... i think Ghostly Legion and Brittle Bones are both Buffs. Though I admit the flavor text is a little weird, what they do mechanically is (GL) give you Tactical Edge (and maybe a small boost to damage) and (BB) gives you an extra die of damage (which can be very useful in fishing for massive damage to cause wounds).

While I do agree that protective spells are also "Buffs" if find it useful to split them out into a separate group. There are enough spells that grant offensive benefits (to indirectly cause more damage) and defensive benefits (that directly reduce the amount of damage you take) that its worth it to break them apart into two different categories.

TMK the first gaming aid/book to address the divisions in spells by function was the Complete Wizards Handbook for the 2nd Edition of AD&D. (they did a series of Handbooks for each of the classes...I think I've still got my copy gathering dust on a Bookshelves somewhere) Anyway it was a little clunky as a first effort and it had four of its categories listed as "Attack 1," "Attack 2," "Defense 1" and "Defense 2" (in addition to some better named categories like mobility, divination and healing).

Attack 1 was for spells that did direct damage (eg. Magic Missle or in A:RPG Elemental Bolt)
Attack 2 was for spells that helped indirectly to do more damage (eg. Bless, Enlarge Person, Haste or in A:RPG some versions of Benediction of the Gods and Celerity). These days we call these Buffing spells.
Defense 1 was hard defense that either raised your AC/Defenses or made you resistant to damage (eg. Shield, Protection from Arrows or in A:RPG some versions of Benediction of the Gods or Ward of Shielding)
Defense 2 was soft defense that inhibited the opponent from attacking you at all. (eg. hold person, blindness/deafness, grease or in A:RPG Chains of Mental Might or Enemy of My Enemy). These days we call these spells Control.

My categories of Buff, Control and Protection come directly out of their old effort.

I should also add that the "REAL" purpose of breaking spells down this way is to aid "Sanity Checks" when you are building your caster to make sure your spell selection reflects the capacities you want your "ideal" spell caster to have. In Arcanis you get (a lot) fewer spells than D&D and as a result you may need to pay more attention.

Tukufu will be casting Tier 3 spells at some point soonish. I've had a copy of this on my laptop for awhile. I dusted this off in preparation to add Tier 3 spells to the list.

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of Spell Lists by Caster
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:33 am 
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That makes sense. I did a similar exercise deciding what casting I wanted Kelb to have. I wanted him to have that 'bard feel' with buffs, debuffs, control and a little healing and a little damage. Originally I went Cants but that was lacking, so I switched to Eldritch.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Comparison of Spell Lists by Caster
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:53 am 
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I added the Tier 3 spells.

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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