Thank you Vault thats a great return to the orginal question/issue, and I agree with the base of your argument, that is where pople are having issues.

however instead of giving them all an item, maybe a particular favor instead?, if magic items are so rare even getting access to purchase one is worth a significant favor?

--just a thought

I do like the idea of giving one free item and access (even a one-shot access) to buying more as being a good idea. . . in very specific circumstances. If it is all the time, it gets a bit contrived and hard to rationalize for a writer.

There are times when it is reasonable to include multiple items to be found (i.e. enemy base of operations, group of high level enemy combatants, lost tombs and fortresses). There are times when it is makes no sense whatsoever (i.e. single adversary with or without a bunch of minions who wouldn't be equipped with special items/any items at all). That's from a writer's perspective.

This is something that bothers me though. When did we (as a community, as a larger society) develop a mentality where "If he/she gets one, I should get one too, and it's not fair if I don't"? I'm not being sarcastic or facetious here, I'm genuinely curious. When did the perspective of disappointment when you don't get something while someone else does become the dominant perspective? Is it the dominant perspective?

I suppose more immediately pertinent to the discussion: Would you rather have a whole lot of generic magic items floating around out there, like D&D where every one and their dog has a bag of holding, or a Belt of Giant Strength +4 (until they can afford the Belt of Giant Strength +6)? Or would you rather have cool items with a story, your story?

Tony
I may be wrong, but I don't believe the issue is that each time people get something, everyone must get something. I think the issue was if I've gone through a lot of adventures and I keep seeing people get things, and I never do, how does that make me feel.

John

If that's the issue, my question is, how does it make you feel? Honestly? And why do you feel that way? Not *you* personally of course, John, but anyone asking that question of me.

As a writer, I want to put cool stuff in for people to find. Heck, I have put in a fair bit of interesting, un-certed stuff that people could pick up for the flavour value. Some of these things even have actual bonuses. But I also realize that I can't put in something for everyone, every time.

Which leads me to being Campaign staff; at this level, we can look across adventures and try to provide a good cross-section of loot for everyone, while still fitting it to the stories that are being told. We haven't gotten to everywhere yet, we haven't told a fraction of the stories there are to tell, but we'll get there. Slowly but surely, so long as the players bear with us and we have the judges to share the stories, we'll tell some great stories, and there'll be some great stuff to steal too.

I'd be really interested to see how many Heroes have little to no magic items... and how many Heroes have lots. Because I honestly don't think there are too many people who haven't gotten anything, and I don't think there are too many people who have gotten more than a couple things at most. But I could be wrong.

Quality of stories has been one of the biggest draws for this game. Likewise they've done a great job of limiting the impact gear has on the game.

Is it fun to keep missing things? Probably not. In the example you gave though, what's causing the person to miss out over and over again? If gear doesn't fit the character then adding an extra copy won't solve it. If every table decides to resolve things using a dice roll then that may be something the player can bring up as part of a treasure split negotiation. Maybe that character offers to buy out the item from the rewards and saves up 5, 10 or 15 Gc to do it. Another option is to wait and play mods with folks who've already played the mod before. There are opportunities to work things out at the table. If someone's getting their 2nd, 3rd or 4th special item maybe see about having them exchange one of those for the new widget.

Forcing situations to go binary - all or no one is going to be a lot more no one and a lot less all. I've seen mods where there are interesting items that no one or very few people at any given table are likely to use. They get left behind or sold.

And to be fair, there have been weapons, runes and gear given out. It's not quite that they got nothing, it's that they didn't get something that money can't currently buy.

What's the character's story? What's the narrative? A solution is to look at the campaign and the rarity of these items and simply expect not to get something unusual. If it does happen it's a bonus. Attitude is something we can control. I admit it's not always easy, but it is our choice. Make the item that got away part of the character's narrative. If the character keeps missing out, maybe the character starts paying a bit more true devotion to Larissa to try and win over lady luck, or starts blaming an Infernal encountered during the Crusade for a curse of ill fortune.

For every mod played after the first time it's just gold and XP. There will likely be a lot of characters who won't have anything unusual. It may not make missing out more fun, but it may help to realize that there are a lot of other players and characters in the same boat.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

One thought I had that could help players feel less like they are missing out is, if a player misses out on all special items, allow the player to take the replay cert on their first run-through (and allow them to take the primary cert at a later time). That way, they may have a chance at a special item on a different character sometime in the future from that adventure.

That's one thing I've always been curious about (but it doesn't bother me) - why was it decided that on replays with different characters, players can not get any special loot? I don't know of any other living campaign that handles it that way (all the ones I know of treat each character as completely separate with all the same options for loot).

Part of me understands why you're saying this. But I do not agree with it completely. One of the greatest challenges of this game is the pseudo-reality of it. You're not going to get to it all. Our characters are not omniscient. And yes that means we will miss out. There are opportunities in real life that we miss out on and we move forward without them. Same applies to here. Going in for a replay gives that person an unprecedented unfair forward knowledge of what's to come. Those that didn't play that mod before go through the whole risk vs. the unknown and the rewards of doing or not doing. It's the motto of Arcanis: Actions have consequences. Lack of an action plays into this. Replayers remove that risk vs. the unknown. Do you think it is fair for them to get the item, especially when amongst those that haven't experience the event? This isn't a MMO where you get to replay a dungeon over and over again to farm an item. And allowing such would completely ruin the Arcanis feel when involving those that did not replay the mod.

However, I do think that nothing should go to waste. If all players that haven't played that mod before each pass on an item, it should be opened to those that replayed and wanted a shot at said item just so it doesn't go just "poof" out of existence if someone really wanted it. Chronicler discretion having the final say, obviously.

I’ve been lurking on this discussion for a while now, just mulling over how I feel about the issue.

First off, my primary PC has played all but 2 modules, yet — excluding runes and higher quality weapons/armors — has only taken magic items when the module gave out one item per PC, so everyone got something.

Does this bother me? No.
Even a little? No.
Do I feel my PC is at a disadvantage because she hasn’t gotten any of the cool magic items? No.

Why not? My PC is defined by her background, her abilities, her spells, what she can do and has done, not by what she carries around with her. Sure, there are magic items that would be nice to have, helpful, useful things. But are they required to make an effective PC? No. Do they define who the PC is? No way.

From the perspective of a GM, with her own home game, magic items are a pain in the neck. The distribution is never perfect. How many times have I heard, “He’s got 3 magic items, but I only have 1!” How many times have I crafted the perfect magic item for a PC, only to hear the player complain “It’s an ok sword, but it doesn’t have this ability, or that quality, or whatever.” Makes me want to wring their necks!

In a world-wide campaign, these issues are multiplied 100 fold! At least.

My thoughts and suggestions:

— Keep Arcanis focused on the story, not the magic items. The story is what makes Arcanis different and is the reason why many of us are here. Continue adding flavor items that give little or no bonuses — those are wonderful! Keep the appearance of magic items rare and the access to runes and higher quality weapons/armor reasonable. Let the story drive the availability of these rewards.

— Make all magic items unsellable. Perhaps allow them to be traded to NPCs, for a favor or other consideration, but not money or other magic items. This gets rids of the issue with players who take items just to sell them for cash.

— I don’t like the idea of allowing replays to take items. Someone replaying a mod has too much prior knowledge about the mod to make this fair.

— I don’t like the idea of a marketplace, because I think it would quickly add way too much magic to the campaign.

— I do like the idea of allowing each PC opportunities to “build” their own defining magic item. They could use cash, favors, maybe even talents to do so. In game-world terms, I’d describe this as “commissioning an item.” Then having master craftsmen enhance it over time. Or perhaps allow a PC to take one of those cool flavor items and have it enhanced it over time? I’d limit each PC to one and only one such item. Period. And I’d probably limit how often an item can be “enhanced,” e.g., once every X modules.

Okay I'm going give my two cents...

First I agree with Tony's argument about that the loot distribution is a function of the mod as relates to where you adventure and who or what you fight.

I like the idea of a favor to get something or better yet have something (especially as regards to weapons and armor) for you. This makes the item unique to you.

While expensive there's always the option to have something made. I used the item I got from last years BI to have a quarterstaff made. I like it because it's my deity's weapon and I'm a priest. Plus I had religious iconography of both Beltine and Hurrian worked into it as a sign of where I come from (parents). And since I got access to a Thunder rune from my first mod I added that, which determined its name "Donnerschlag" which is German (Milandisian) for Thunderclap. Unique to me and my character and means far more to me than random loot from any mod. I concede this is not for everyone but it works for me and feels right for this game.

We do need a mechanic to track and use favors over time. I too have a huge binder from the last campaign (3.5) full of never used favor certs.

Finally by and large I'm happy with the way things are going. We can tinker with it a bit but I would not say we need wholesale changes.