An in-module marketplace is an interesting idea - likely we'd need to have them show up every once in a while (maybe one adventure per year?).

I like the idea of having favor/fame help with the market though I'm not sure how we could make the disparate existing ones apply in a logical manner. So far, I think there was one that was explicitly good for 2 Gc as one option. Maybe have other favor/fame worth (numbers pulled out of thin air) one-time 1 Gc if the market is in an appropriate place and 50 Sc if it's not (reflecting some extra resources that could be brought to bear due to the favor).

The idea of cashing in favors for potential magic items or other non-purchasable loot sounds like a great idea worth investigating. Sure, it's akin to some MMOs where you gather ingredients in dungeons and turn them in to a quest giver. However, if flavored right and there are in-game story reasons for the NPCs or nations to do this, it has a chance to do many things.

1) Allow characters a chance to customize their characters at a slow pace. For instance if someone wants an exceptional Flintlock, they will want to turn in favors for Altheria. If someone is looking for a magical bow, favors they have with the Hinterlands or NPCs from there would be valuable.
2) Keep magic items from flooding in. It might take 3-4 adventures to earn enough favor with a particular nation or NPC to warrant the item. There might also be a cost of some type (rate item from a module or cash).
3) Prevent the "10 games and never won a roll" quandary that was brought up as a potential problem.

This would require campaign staff and PCI to create a list of "allowable factions" that could reward items and the types of items. For instance:
Altheria (NPC 1 and NPC 2): favors and reputation for this nation or NPCs can get you flintlocks (if legally allowed), special shot, magical tomes or magical eye wear.
Milandir (NPC 1, NPC 2, or NPC 3(: Cannget you heavy armor, large weapons, shields, magical greaves, or magical helmets

Then authors could sprinkle favors or reputation for appropriate factions in their modules. When a character has enough then can complete a quest in their next module for the item.

This is just off the top of my head but I think it might be something that warrants fleshing out or more thought.

Thoughts?

John

As for the "This isn't D&D" argument. Arcanis is a high fantasy RPG with many races, "classes", nations, ruins and dungeons to explore, organizations to tally against and heroes to aspire to. It's the same genre as D&D and still pulls a lot of its core from that and similar games. We have elves (Elorii), dwarves (cursed Celestial giants), tiefling a (dark-kin), aasimar (val), Etc. Arcanis had brought a very unique, and powerfully addictive twist on a lot of aspects of the game (story and mechanics) that make it a wonderful game! However, just saying "this isn't D&D" and discounting comparisons in that light is missing out on a lot of things that can and will draw more people to the game. I'd rather see argument about what Arcanis is and what makes it special than just falling back on saying what we feel it isn't.

John

Arcanis is in part defined by the fact that it initially used the D&D system rather than it's own. It was high magic item because that was the norm for the system. It's very clear though that the world of Arcanis as envisioned is far more about the heroes than about any gear.

If we're talking high fantasy then it's probably worth going back and looking at the founding of the genre. I think Arcanis is far closer to Tolkien's Middle Earth. In the Hobbit through the entire book, there were 3 magic weapons found in the lair of the trolls, 1 magic ring as the driver for the plot and nice weapons and armor within the Halls of the Mountain King. You can maybe argue that the Black Arrow was a special magic arrow. From that perspective you had the Company which consisted of Gandalf, Bilbo and the 13 dwarves and through the entire story arc those were the only magic items they saw.

If you look at the Lord of the Ring series, there are very few additional named items that the Fellowship either starts with, reforges or finds.

If I think about the genre as a whole and about popular series within it I still have a hard time coming up with a lot of magic items mentioned or given. The Riftwar saga by Feist comes to mind. That was written using a game he ran as the core. Outside of Tomas and his dragon's gift which was a major plot driver, there weren't a ton. The Black Company novels by Cook has very little other than the Standard. The Jhereg series by Brust has a few, but mostly in weapons which are readily available in Arcanis as well.

So, if Tolkien's Middle Earth is closer to the way to think about magic items and gear, I would say it's pretty much right on target.

Returning to the specifics of Arcanis, most characters will never reach an 8 Charisma. As such, they have a practical limit of between 4 and 6 items they can be wearing at any given time. Some items will be used from Tier 1 to Tier 5 because they're practical and useful. To me this sounds more like 2 - 3 magic items earned at most per tier plus various weapons and armor. I think it will be incredibly rare to find exceptional quality armor before late Tier 2 or Tier 3. The value it has is huge. Exceptional weapons are far less expensive and are being found. There's still an opportunity to add various runes to them.

I think there are opportunities to add interesting mundane items that will have particular significance. I go back to the idea I had earlier of making a drinking horn from one of the horns or teeth of Uhxbractit. It would have no magical properties or likely resale value, but it would have made a lively RP hook.

Personally I'm glad it's about the story. I'm extremely glad that the rewards provided aren't decided by the tier of difficulty you play. People still want to play everything with a character so they can advance it in ranks and get that cool new weapon trick or spell or autocast level or Path. That's focused on the character and where I think they want it to be.

Respectfully and with a sweep of his hat,

Paul

but magic items in general there are more than a few:

Items aquired in the couse of the books (give or take) :
the One ring, Gandalf the White's Staff, Lembas bread, elven rope, the Palantir, elven cloaks, Sam's box of earth, Frodo's phial of starlight, the horn of Gondor, Narsil, the door to the dwarves, shadowfax

My counterpoint is that even in Lotr there are Big magic items and minor magic items, the story itself is centrered around destroying one big one, but they use, gather many others on their routes. some of which parts of the story depend on, like golums reaction to the elven rope, or the hobbits using the elven cloaks to hide

Im not arguing with the main point of the argument just this example, I dont think Arcanis needs a preponderance of magic items, just some that are character appropriate, and i think there are rules baked into the system about how many items you can use at once that work quite well without creating an absence.

Although I do see where you coming from, that PoV also makes it that every fantasy game as at least some similarity to D&D (and in all honestly they do). Though, the general genre is where these games are similar, once you go in-depth, that similarity ends.

I have seen many new players partake of Arcanis adventures because they though the game was like D&D. Easily, 90% of them stated the same thing (in one way or another): 'This isn't like D&D at all!'. Not in a negative stance, but one of experience something they never did before. To a minor few, this new experience pushed away certain players due to not wanting to try something new or it was to complicated for them to grasp (the storyline aspect and implications, not the game's mechanics). To majority of others, it was a very welcomed experience that opened up a new appetite concerning playing a RPG (be it a home or living campaign).

The largest, and albeit conflicting (in a good way) at times, attraction of Arcanis is its story and how heavily it is emphasized in the game. I believe is here where that "This isn't D&D" phrase is coming from. And, like all other Fantasy genre games, it will have its flux of magical items (minor and major alike). However, and the alluring feature of this game is, despite the fact that magic items can make certain things less complicated, they are by no means absolutely necessary to be competent and useful.

Hello John,



I guess we will have to continue to agree to disagree.

The "This isn't D&D" argument is quite valid in the context of acquiring magic items, IMO.

In D&D, your gear makes you competitive and magical items may be required to battle more and more powerful creatures.

In Arcanis, with a few notable exceptions, every enemy faced can be defeated with a rusty old sword - it's the abilities of the character that make him/her formidable.

The fact that Arcanis is the same genre and draws from certain tropes of D&D is irrelevant in the context of this question. The original OP was concerned that some people were getting magical/nifty items when others didn't for X, Y and Z reasons. In a standard D&D game, you would be rightly concerned by this and maybe even unable to compete with others if player A got all the "good stuff" and you didn't. Not so in Arcanis - while neat and maybe give you a slight edge here and there, not having magic items will not make you unable to play at the same level as other players, for reasons specified above.

And that's why I feel that the "it's not D&D" argument is valid in this specific context.

Now as to resolving the "problem", I'm not entirely convinced there is one to solve. Having said that, I will certainly discuss it with the LA Staff and see what their opinion is on the issue and what possible solutions (if any) can be implemented.

I forsee the creation of a new magic item: Ye Rusty Ole Sword

Not to be confused with Ye Rusty Ole Goat (the mount or the spouse).

I agree that in Tier I and Tier II magic isn't required, but it can help in many ways. Looking at numbers in Tier III and beyond, creature statistic rise faster than PCs so there appears to be a point where having a couple additional points in skills or AR or other boosted mechanic will be highly desire able if not required.

The D&D Next is actually taking a similar view to magic items. They aren't required and the boost they give could be significant so will be less common.

Arcanis has done a good job with magic items in that they usually offer a minor boost or ability, which varies by Tier. It's a good methodology. We can certainly agree to disagree on the other points. I don't think that there's a big problem but I also understand the issue being addressed. Again as long as there are "shinies" to acquire (magic or otherwise, special items, unique or historically cool items, etc) there will be ample opportunity.

John

When looking at magical items availability I feel there are 2 things to consider, how frequently they appear in modules, and how many appear when they are available as loot.

PCI has a done a great job in how frequently they appear in modules. They appear rarely, and make magical items feel special. I hope this kind of frequency continues and I hope no one here is asking to change to this.
In the Crusade Arc there was 28 modules released for general play.
4 of them present magical items (excluding runes because they can be bought, sold, and transferred to different items). Magic items cannot be bought and are basically one time get items.
1 was gifted to every character for doing well in a module
1 a list was provided and each character could take a single item
1 provided 2 items
1 provided a single item

These last 2 example are the kinds of situations that lead to people being upset. I do feel that when magic items do appear that not enough appear to avoid disappointment at a table. When 2 items appear, 2 players get money, XP, and an item, 2-4 only get money and XP. It's hard to find a table that won't argue, especially if an item can be used by more than one person. In my earlier post I gave suggestions to increase choice to players. I liked the situation where the list appearing on the cert and each character got 1 item, that was great.

Keep item frequency the same, let them appear very rarely, don't allow the Marketplace, in module or out. But when they do appear in module make it easier to avoid disgruntled players by giving them all an item.