::Shrug:: The only items that my character has gotten in all of the ARPG system has been those items that EVERYONE got (or had the option of getting) with the exception of an ancient Flamberge which is less-effective than my usual one from James Zwier's Delve. Do I feel like I've been cheated? Not really. As Tony mentioned, the gear does not make a Hero, it simply is another tool in their toolbox. Would the Greaves of Upheaval be helpful to my character? Yes. Would that mighty-morphing Holy Symbol/Wand thing be useful? Yes. Am I mad I didn't get them? Not overly.

One alternative to this would be to institute a Marketplace system for the campaign. Maybe have it 1/year (ie: at Origins) Heroes can buy any non-restricted item of their Tier or less if they have the appropriate monies for it. This can be done online with a volunteer handling the book keeping and sending out Certs. A fair amount of work, yes, but doable, and something that can be delegated to someone other than the immediate PCI or Campaign Staff.

In general, I'd be perfectly fine with all magic items having 0 value. The only time it would be nice to relax this is if nobody at a table is interested in an item (and then I'd be fine making it worth even less than most of the resell values seem to be).

I suppose part of the problem with missing out on items is that gold just isn't very valuable past a certain point. After buying some runes and an exceptional quality low-cost weapon, there isn't much else to spend money on (heavier armors and more expensive weapons are so expensive as exceptional that nobody will ever be able to afford them). Then again, that will likely change as people hit Tier 3 and can start buying those (more expensive) runes.

I fully support the focus on the character and what they can do rather than the gear they have. I can appreciate there have been some interesting or unusual items that have gone by in the mods I've played. Some have been appropriate, some not.

To me, "perfect" would truly need to be perfect. If you had an ancient 1st Imperium flamberge with a divine Nier rune on it once weilded by a lieutenant of Leonydas val'Virdan and there were 2 Martial Nierite Templar Grand Masters of the Flamberge, you could certainly make the case that it's perfect thematically and mechanically.

Highly useful though is different than perfect. That will come up a lot more often.

I don't support a once / year Marketplace at a limited event for people to get things. Either it's a bit more accessible or we just leave it be. As it stands magic items are tradeable I believe or at least some of them are. That can alleviate some of the issues. Perhaps the use of a trading thread on the board which would provide some oversight. Alternatively allow for the purchase say 1/tier of 1 item from a pre-approved list. It provides some flexibility without going overboard given no more than 5 items over the entire span of a character's career.

To Tony's point about money, yes and no. There is certainly more money in the campaign than there used to be. When you look at the costs for exceptional quality weapons with a full complement of runes on it, you can be looking at 25 Gc for 4 runes assuming a Tier 2 Exceptional plus whatever the cost of the weapon is. Exceptional quality light armor's within range and heavy is way out of it.

By and large though, even a fully tricked out weapon provides limited mechanical advantage. It's slightly faster. It does slightly more damage. It may provide an interesting effect, though often that's only at the Exceptional level and few exceptional runes are Tier 2. If you're bringing up a secondary character who won't get anything except money and XP there are certainly ways to spend it.

Getting cool stuff is usually seen as a fun reward. Even if it's not a mechanical advantage. If I'd thought about it I probably would have asked if Uxbraxtix had horns and could I have sawed one off. Getting something made out of that might have been cool even without any official cert or mechanical advantage.

Perhaps there's an opportunity to add a bit more flavor specific rewards that have little or no mechanical advantage. Make them untradable or priceless so no monetary advantage or make them minimal benefit. This helps avoid the power creep, still provides some cool "stuff" for people to take away and provide some balance for people getting something even if it doesn't make sense to have enough items to cover everyone at the table.

Thoughts?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

How do you define "perfect"? Everyone will very likely have different definitions. Your example sounds like that it must be an absolute perfect fit story-wise for you. What if the item doesn't have an extensive story tie-in? What if the item fits a character perfectly mechanically (whether it has a story tie-in or not)?

I suppose another issue I have with the current loot distribution method is that it is not at all equal. Items will likely each be worth more than the total gold share for the adventure. The nearest thing that can be bought to a magic item is a rune which costs 5 Gc per tier (iirc) which is far more gold than any adventure gives out (at least per player). Again, this isn't really an issue if a group always plays together - they can lend the equipment and rotate who gets the special items. For a typical LA pickup group, this doesn't work - it's entirely possible for one player to continuously lose out on item rolls (but it's different players/characters/GMs so you can't just say "okay - you get the item this time because you've missed it the last X times").

The more I think about it, the more I think I prefer the old LFR method for living campaigns - you are limited to the specific items in the adventure but each person gets one (regardless of number of copies). Given the differences with Arcanis, if this approach is taken, I'd suggest making it impossible to sell magic items (selling should be limited to things you can buy (mundane items and runes)).

As one of the more vocal dissenters when the change to a "Relic Based Magic Item Economy" was instituted (Basically where there was only 1 of each item), I have to say that I have not personally seem too many issues with distribution or fairness. In the games I've played in, there are generally only 2-3 people max who want any one given item and sometimes if it's a highly specialized item, there's only 1 anyways. Usually the decision comes down to:

1) Bargaining/Dealing: One characters offers some 'payment' to the others and is allowed to take the item in question OR
2) Random: Everyone rolls a die and winner takes it

#1 is a lot more fun to watch, but #2 happens a lot also. It may take a few adventures but usually these things balance out in the long run. One thing I have seen is that if someone gets an item, they don't get a share of the gold. Also if there's an item that no one wants, it's usually sold at the table and the proceeds split by those who got no magic items.

So far the authors and campaign staff have been good at item distribution in my opinion and there a few key things that have made this possible:

A) There are usually 3-5 items in each adventure now that can be given out
B) There is a nice variety in items that are being given out (weapons, armor, wands, special miscellaneous items) so that it's possible each person wants just 1 item

As long as the above continues, I don't see this as a long term problem. I've been on all sides. There have been items I've wanted and lost, items I've wanted and gotten, and times when I didn't want anything but the non-certed piece of fluff that no one else did

A few points I'd like to address that others have brought up:

Henry, you make some good points and the system does a good job of not being item-reliant. However, for the vast majority of players, *every* Arcanis game is a pick-up game since a lot of folks play at conventions or game days. Therefore, any discussion needs to take that into account.

Tony, while there may be a few characters who have enough money to retire and need nothing, I would argue that given the rising costs of runes (at higher Tiers) and the cost to buy Exceptional Weapons, that this is not the common scenario characters are in. I know personally I need to accumulate 38gp for my Exceptional Weapon and I'm about half of the way there saving up. I have bought 2 Runes in the last 4 years, so even if I'd saved everything I might *just* be able to afford it right now at Tier 2.6.

John

It seems that you have forgotten the multiple times I've brought it up to you directly.

just because its passed largely unnoticed for so long does not mean it is a good rule.

The only reason I suggest an annual Marketplace is to give options. A lot of Magic items do not have costs associated with them, so making the list of what you CAN buy becomes something of a chore to whoever volunteers/is made to do it, but it is an option. Have it where a month before Origins, you have a "Okay, anyone in the campaign can purchase a selection of items if they have the money" where you have one email you can send in as to what you want. Hell, if you have enough people involved you can even do some haggling!

Benefits:
1) Opens up new avenues for people to use in-game monies.
2) Allows for yearly "themed" Marketplaces, where one year you could buy a Khitani Dao, another you have the option to buy a Griffin!
3) If done online, it can be open to everyone who is interested.

Drawbacks:
1) A lot of work (potentially) to put the lists together and creating "item certs".
2) When not doing this in person, you kind of have to trust players to not be lying about their monies.
3) Not everyone may hear about what is going on, and will cry wolf about 'just missing the deadline'
4) Starts turning the game into a more item-driven experience.

As stated above, I am perfectly fine with the random items as is. It usually does not affect me, and I (almost) never take it personally when I don't get an item, especially when it comes down to a straight dice roll.

I've come to really despise dice rolling for distributing loot, particularly when its the only option considered or the first option thought of.

I know that sometimes its necessary, I just don't like it.

if it were associated with less risk, ie the items were available in other means, like for purchase at the end of the module, or through some marketplace type thing that would be different.

For my two cents, I really enjoyed the old LA marketplaces for the unique items that would show up from year to year. I seem to recall the suggestion of a marketplace being shot down by campaign staff in the past, but I'm not certain that the current model of treasure allocation (seemingly random drops in modules) being very satisfying when most characters reach T2-T3.

It will be frustrating, I think, to have X amount of gold accrued and be entirely unable to buy that magical pair of boots that you've been waiting to see in a module for the past 3-4 years.

On top of that, even if they are rare I think it would make sense in the campaign that there would be at least a few merchants who would specialize in magical items for the rich and famous. I have a hard time believing that most Coryani senators and nobles wouldn't have the ability to purchase some magical trinket to protect them from poison, or something similar. The heroes just need to find this merchant and convince him to show us his wares

Personally, I would love to see a marketplace in the campaign again.

Josh,

If things can be worked out equitably without rolling, that's certainly preferred. Given that there are often no values associated with magic items, it makes it a bit harder to try and figure out how to do a divide by Gc and "buy out" what you want approach. Even then you can still run into the same issue with people wanting the same item.

It may be worth reminding folks - GMs included - about what's tradeable. It could open up some additional flexibility for resolving disputes at tables.

@Cody: The original Living campaign went down a similar approach. That evolved over time. I don't remember where things netted out. I don't recall enough of the details to say if they ever found a system they were happy with. I'd certainly recommend reviewing what happened with that before deciding on a system.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul