You're stuck with 20 of reach. Invest in Quickness. Your probably going to do a fair bit if shifting to get the reach juuussst ssoo.

That Lizardman we don't see enough of seemed to make it work, though I suspect he was used to forethought in his tactics.

Yep, I agree Eric. Until someone errata's the book, publishes a new book, or gives me a nice special cert, I'm stuck. It wasn't impossible to deal with. Just took some tactical thought.

Sounds like consensus is to treat it normally. I'm good with that and that's why I asked

John

Well when you take Whirlwind Attack, I will refuse to run you through any adventures

John

Actually one thing that came up in last nights game was tactical edge. Does a pikeman standing 20 feet away from a target grant tactical edge to other players engaged with the same mob?

On one hand that is a LOT of area to grant tactical edge to. On the other hand the pikeman is a real threat.

Tactical Edge from flanking is based upon proximity, not just threatened areas.

Here is the writeup:

Flanking:
Creatures with enemies on more than one side are Flanked; Flanked creatures grant a Tactical Edge to all enemies, not just those that are on either side of it.

John

How bout being outnumbered?

So, in my book, if there's a reasonable chance that someone is going to stab me in the back if I ignore him (regardless of if he stabs me with a knife, sword, spear or even just a sharpened stick) then that person is reasonably distracting and would be demanding enough of my attention that I would grant tactical edge to other people who might also want to stab me.

So yes, at my tables, if you are 20' away from a pikeman, and in melee with someone else, then that someone else will get tac. edge.
EDIT: So will the pikeman. But if you are 15' away, then no, I don't think that the pikeman should grant tac. edge. But that's a bit more gray to me.

Now, with respect to whirlwind attack... When I first read this maneuver, the pike immediately came to mind. It's obviously a powerful combination when you abstract out the reality of using a 20' long weapon. However, unless a clarification is made, here's how I intend to handle it at my tables... Anyone within your optimal range is a valid target for the attack. Anyone greater than or less than your optimal range will not be a valid target.

Here's why... Obviously, there's a (debatable) question of balance. Being able to attack 80 targets with one maneuver was never intended. (even if the majority of those attacks are at a penalty.) Second, some weapons have the Long Strike trick. While combining Whirlwind (when it becomes a base maneuver) with Long Strike is perfectly acceptable, in my book, that changes your reach to 10', such that attacking targets adjacent to you is no longer acceptable. It seems to me that this concept should apply to all reach weapons. So, there's a balance issue and a visual issue. There's a striking end, and there's a haft. And while the haft might hurt if struck by it, that's not how the weapon was designed to be used. (And this is coming from a guy whose primary character uses a quarterstaff... a weapon with Long Strike.)

Scott

That sounds pretty rational. If penalty to attack then no tactical edge.

Some how I get the impression that long spears where not play tested as heavily as the other weapons.