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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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I don't recall what the ruling was, I have a feeling that things are supposed to apply across the board (and that's what the rules as written say)

can we use that OR agree to disagree until Pedro makes a ruling? Its not going to do us any good to rehash the issue based on recollections

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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I'm fine with waiting until Pedro has a chance to chime in. However, I disagree that the rules say non-Avoidance spells are affected.
Quote:
Cover is relevant if the physical barrier is sufficient to impede attacks, rather than the ability to sense the target.

For Avoidance spells, it's usually obvious that the spell has a physical form (elemental bolt) but for Fortitude or Discipline targeting spells, it's unclear to me that there's anything to impede (the spells are dependent on sensing the target - not on physically targeting them). Of course, it's possible I've missed another section of the rules that makes it clear that non-Avoidance spells should be affected by cover. It could also be that I'm just reading too much into the distinction.

Also, a related question - do area spells suffer firing into melee penalties? In most games, they don't but someone made a comment (don't remember if it was in this thread or not) that made it seem like they do in Arcanis.

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:31 pm 
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I am fine agreeing to disagree for now. And would be okay with either ruling vis a via are spells that target discipline penalized when fired into melee.

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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I believe the problem is that Very compelling arguments could be made for both sides of the argument.

On one hand Spell Attacks on discipline are things that target the mind, So why are they different than other ranged attacks that attack discipline (a thrown knife at the outset of an unbalancing attack for example)

Or a mental scream done at range is a purely mental action, what am I doing to cause a free attack?

....Etc.
My point is that we could go on for quite a long while with example and counterexample all of which are arguing about a rule that is necessarily abstract, there is a list of things that provoke free strikes, rather than a set of conditions that form a logical test to indicate a free strike.

That last statement was somewhat cumbersome, please allow me to expand it some: If we had a set of conditions that were listed such as "a task that requires a significant amount of mental focus" or taking an "untactically sound action in melee range" there might be room to argue the points and examples.

Instead we have a list of what is and isn't allowed, and a group recollection that there was some specific ruling on it.

Couple of side points
-I'm good with the rule either way
-I'm not attacking anyone.
-Both arguments above have flaws in them and are not good arguments (imo)

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:04 am 
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deviknyte wrote:
On the old forums the ruling was any and all ranged attacks, powers and spells took the negative 4. Spells are powerful enough cited as one of the reasons. They didn't need anymore help.


As I recall this was the final official ruling on the old message boards, which I also have noted in my "almost done" ask a statmonkey document update

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:30 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Thanks for chiming in. I'm fine with that. The only thing that seems odd is that Arcane Accuracy exists to help Avoidance targeting spells but not anything similar for Fortitude or Discipline targeting spells. At least based on a full perusal of one BI, there isn't significant differences in defense numbers. Has any thought been given to similar adaptation talents for the other spells? Or are Fortitude and Discipline spells enough better that the added penalty seems appropriate? Diminish Senses is good enough I'd still pick it anyway but some other ones don't seem so (and I certainly haven't looked at all of the T1 spells in that much detail).

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:40 pm 
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wilcoxon wrote:
Has any thought been given to similar adaptation talents for the other spells?


Under consideration, but doubtful... as things go Fort and Disc targeting spells have more catastrophic effects (for the most part)

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
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PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
wilcoxon wrote:
Has any thought been given to similar adaptation talents for the other spells?


Under consideration, but doubtful... as things go Fort and Disc targeting spells have more catastrophic effects (for the most part)

That was your answer last time too.


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