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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1295
Hello,

I appreciate your reticence to join FB for the various reasons stated, however this is the preferred medium for a large number of people who play RPGs. Not having a Facebook page/groups means that we are invisible to a great many people and that's something I can't ignore.

The forums won't be going away - I'll keep answering questions and posting relavent information - but I'll also be posting on FB.

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Henry Lopez
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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 792
Location: Michigan
So a question about this post - it seems to indicate that a significant number of the Coryani Battle Mages may actually be shaman, but that possibility is not in any way reflected in the path. Is there a plan to errata that, or to add an additional path for primal casters in the military? Also, it discusses that many of such people might be those picked up originally as auxiliaries in areas where the legion operates - which indicates it is possible to be active in a legion without necessarily originally having been a Coryani citizen, which also isn't reflected in the rules. As someone of Coryani blood raised in the hinterlands (so in many ways my character has always thought of himself as Coryani) this is of particular interest to me - though there is no way to become a legionnaire once a character has been created, so I suppose it is academic in any case.

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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:59 am
Posts: 758
Location: Northwest Territories, Canada
PCIHenry wrote:
I appreciate your reticence to join FB for the various reasons stated, however this is the preferred medium for a large number of people who play RPGs. Not having a Facebook page/groups means that we are invisible to a great many people and that's something I can't ignore.

Hi Henry,

I absolutely understand, my post wasn't meant to be critical of the new page. Having a larger presence on Facebook can only help to grow the game, I think it is a great idea. The more exposure we can get for Arcanis, the better. Seeing as some of us don't frequent Facebook, however, I'm glad to hear that you aren't planning on scrapping the forums any time soon :)

Looking forward to more of these in-depth writeups in the future.

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Akira Currier
aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Val Grand Master (Martial 2.10)
aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.4)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:22 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1295
Hello,

toodeep wrote:
So a question about this post - it seems to indicate that a significant number of the Coryani Battle Mages may actually be shaman, but that possibility is not in any way reflected in the path. Is there a plan to errata that, or to add an additional path for primal casters in the military? Also, it discusses that many of such people might be those picked up originally as auxiliaries in areas where the legion operates - which indicates it is possible to be active in a legion without necessarily originally having been a Coryani citizen, which also isn't reflected in the rules.


Nothing I wrote in the article warrants a change in the Coryani Battle Mage path.

If a Shaman is called a Battle Mage or a rabbit, he/she's still a Shaman. Here, the term Battkle Mage is a title, rather than a game mechanic class/path.

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Henry Lopez
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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:29 am 

Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 6:46 am
Posts: 85
toodeep wrote:
Also, it discusses that many of such people might be those picked up originally as auxiliaries in areas where the legion operates - which indicates it is possible to be active in a legion without necessarily originally having been a Coryani citizen, which also isn't reflected in the rules. As someone of Coryani blood raised in the hinterlands (so in many ways my character has always thought of himself as Coryani) this is of particular interest to me - though there is no way to become a legionnaire once a character has been created, so I suppose it is academic in any case.

The Former Soldier background says "Maybe you were a member of the Coryani Auxiliary, or a standing solider of the militias in the League of Princes." That background covers your scenario, so the only other question is if those individuals can become Centurions or not. There's also the Seasoned Veteran path or others like Myrmidon or War Mage to continue as a non-Coryani Legionaire.


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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 792
Location: Michigan
PCIHenry wrote:
Hello,

Nothing I wrote in the article warrants a change in the Coryani Battle Mage path.

If a Shaman is called a Battle Mage or a rabbit, he/she's still a Shaman. Here, the term Battkle Mage is a title, rather than a game mechanic class/path.


OK, so if you wanted to say your shaman were a Coryani Battlemage, you would take the legionnaire background and just say it, and you could get away with that. I thought the talent was much the same as "proving" that you had that position for roleplaying purposes, just as I would never run a character and say that they were a former legionnaire without taking the former legionnaire background. You're saying you don't need the appropriate path/background to claim something of that nature. In my opinion, that starts to call into question things like the former legionnaire background, since it seems like I could claim my character is a former legionnaire, slap a tat on him, and roleplay him as a former legionnaire, and reap the former legionnaire benefits for roleplay purposes, as long as I never take any of the paths/talents that require that background.

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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 484
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Provided it does not violate world setting and basic restrictions ("Hi! I am a mage who escaped from Ymandragore!"), you can "say" you are whatever you want provided that you receive NO in-game benefits. For example, a person playing a Warped One Aardvark from Censure could say he was raised as a member of a Noble House of Censure and thereby claim to be "Noble Born". That is all fine and well for roleplay purposes, but if you need to be Patrician/Noble Born, etc. to get into the VIP section of a bar to rub elbows and get certain key information for a mod, you should *generally* not gain the benefit.

As always, it comes down to a particular Judge's discretion based upon table make-up, story flow, etc. In the above example, if a table were "stuck" in a mod..I might allow a persuasion attempt to convince the doorman they really are Noble Born. If there were an actual Noble Born or Patrician in the party, I would not allow it, because that could be the particular moment for that other character (who actually took the background) to shine.

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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1295
Hello,

I think you're splitting hairs here.

If your shaman acted as a battle mage (not a Coryani Battle Mage) then yes, I don't see an issue with you claiming that.

As for claiming to be a legionnaire to reap the benefits but not actually being one - I suppose that's sort of like that "Stolen Valor" we keep hearing about, where people are claiming to be veterans to reap the benefit, but have never actually been in the military.

So if you want to play a charlatan type, I suppose you could do so, but you'd also have to fake the legionnaire tattoos on both arms. And hope you don't run into an actual veteran.

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Henry Lopez
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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 792
Location: Michigan
PCIHenry wrote:
Hello,

I think you're splitting hairs here.

If your shaman acted as a battle mage (not a Coryani Battle Mage) then yes, I don't see an issue with you claiming that.

As for claiming to be a legionnaire to reap the benefits but not actually being one - I suppose that's sort of like that "Stolen Valor" we keep hearing about, where people are claiming to be veterans to reap the benefit, but have never actually been in the military.

So if you want to play a charlatan type, I suppose you could do so, but you'd also have to fake the legionnaire tattoos on both arms. And hope you don't run into an actual veteran.


Well, no that isn't what I was saying. I thought from your posts that my character could be a Coryani Battle Mage Shaman, and it could be true, despite the fact that they wouldn't qualify for the Coryani Battle Mage Path. That makes sense as long as your roleplaying description of your character is the prime controller of your character - not paths and backgrounds.

So I compared that to being a former Legionnaire. If your character description is the prime controller (excepting only qualification for roll-play requirements, where obviously actual rules and character build trumps character "flavor text") of your character, and you can have been a Coryani Battle Mage without the path, then it seems like you could have a character who is a former legionnaire without the background - no stolen valor involved. You obviously wouldn't have any of the talents, etc of the background, so no rules violation, but if it's in your character story that they were in a legion, but you don't take the background, and your character go into a legion hall... do you get treated as a former legionnaire? Same with the battle mage question. If you are a shaman, have the former legionnaire background, and say you were a battle mage, and you have to deal with some battlemages, do you count as one of their numbers or not if you don't have the Coryani Battle Mage path?

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 Post subject: Re: Coryani Battle Mages Article
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:13 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1281
Ken, I understand where you're coming from. I think the best way to reconcile the mechanics and RP side is to think on WHY there's a distinction from a story perspective that mirrors the mechanics. So it's quite possible that the only soldiers who are able to get the tattoos are the regular line soldiers or ones who distinguished themselves under fire or in some way. It's clear that the general populace can tell the difference, and the tattoo seems the most obvious way. The tattoo may be a declaration that the soldier is a fully trained legionnaire with all the skills and talents that it represents.

If you have all the talents and skills then it behooves you to figure out why you don't get the recognition. You could probably add the disgraced? Talent, perhaps responsible for abandoning your squad under arcane assault.

Alternatively, rebuild your character as a former legionnaire and give him the regional skills and languages that would represent growing up in the Hinterlands. Regardless of the truth of the statement they all view you as a Coryani citizen. See, you even have the tattoo.

While there's a responsibility for the mechanics to mirror the story, there's an equal responsibility on the part of the player to fit the character into the world.

Which way you build your character reflects that vision, and the choices as always have consequences.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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