Greetings,



I strongly oppose associating SP with a monetary value. The goal as I understood Henry's position, was to provide characters a way to gain some personal items to help tell their stories. The point of not assigning costs to magic items is that it maintains their sense of rarity and eliminates future headaches of "Well, it costs X SP which is the equivalent of Y gold, and I've got Y gold, so why can't I just buy it?" Powerful individuals or institutions are the ones able to commission or create items reading the flavor text. I doubt items have standard pricing to the world at large.



Again, I strongly oppose this thinking. This is not D&D where you need to replace your +2 Belt of Giant Strength with a +4 or +6 version. Many items already inherently Tier up with a 1+1/2 Hero Tier benefit.

If you want to focus your character on getting a Legendary weapon or armor with Legendary Rune on it, that should be the vast majority of your SP over the course of all 5 Tiers. You have your Excalibur equivalent. That is your character's signature and I wouldn't expect you to have much else. Alternatively you could have a bunch of lower tier stuff that together give you a bunch of minor benefits perhaps around a theme that define your character's signature. You are the Master of Shadows. That Cloak of the Shadow, Gloves of Manipulation, Boots of the Spider etc. help reinforce your signature.



I thought my initial proposal included that "refusal" SP. I don't know that I'd limit it to 1 per Tier. I think it should be closer to both the SP cost for taking an item out of the reward and the cost of getting one of your own. My feeling is more of a 50/50 rough split. Those kind of numbers would be worked out after general principles are defined.



Buying access is more bookkeeping and work and would be harder to check and verify totals later. I don't think Henry's looking to turn this into a separate economy.



I'd support D as part of actually making the item in question and really don't like F.



That sounds reasonable to me.

, but have the investment of SP's equal to--say--the item's cost in Silver coins. For example, if we want to make an Exceptional Sarishan Steel Gladius, it could cost 15 Gc. Let's assume that to the Sarishan Steel "Cost" is 1 SP/50 Sc. This means that your item would cost you some combination of 15 Gc AND 30 SP's to purchase. Because it is even more rare, a TEMPERED Sarishan Steel blade may cost 1 SC/10 Sc of cost, meaning it would cost 15 Gc and 150 SP to buy.

E. We know there are many Exotic Spells which have showed up in the adventures or in the books (such as Steamblast). This way you could buy access to a new spell by using--say--10 SP/Spell Tier. You'd still have to take the Learn Exotic Spell (ta), but you'd have the ABILITY to learn the spell.

F. This could be an "Emergency" supply for more money and Fate. Say you could cash in 5 SP for 1 Fate Point (prohibitive, but reasonable) or 1 SP for 10 Sc of hard cash. In this case, you are LITERALLY cashing in your reputation for an immediate benefit.

G. At present, there is no means of gaining a Legendary Item. Perhaps you can cash in a large number of SP (say. . . 20) on top of the 'usual' cost (in Gc and SP) to allow you to gain access to Legendary items/runes. Of course, you'd then have to provide a cost for Legendary items, but it will give options.[/quote]

Respectfully and with a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I like Hat's ideas on the system. The one change I'd make is to grant VCP extra SP (maybe 1.5 instead of 1) as "eating" a module really sucks.

iirc, you get CP or VCP for first time and RCP for all subsequent times you play or GM. If not, only give the SP bonus the first time if the GM has never gotten a CP for the adventure.

I could see maybe even giving GMs at the premiere of an adventure double (2 instead of 1.5) unless they play a slot 0 as they never even had an opportunity to play. Based on some things I've read, it seems like PCI sometimes has trouble finding GMs for premieres at ArcaniCon/Origins.

Right now if you eat a mod, you get most if not all the benefits of having played it. That's more clear in the newer mods rather than the old ones. I believe it's covered in the campaign guide.

I've seen an item or two not included but my recollection is that they were fairly minor. Perhaps for those specific mods, provide the same SP benefit as if they didn't get it. Flexible on that.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I would prefer to keep it 1/(V/R)CP for simplicity, and because I would personally prefer VCP's to be EQUAL to CP's and not inferior or superior. You're not going to get that level of equality, but I see no reason to add a full 50% increase! Also, if we can keep this to whole numbers, it simplifies math SIGNIFICANTLY. I work with decimals all day long, and the last thing I want to do with this is THINK

I guess I've mostly only looked at the VCPs for the older modules where they sometimes have items and sometimes don't and often give less gold than CP (but sometimes give an extra 25 xp). If the newer VCPs are more consistent in giving almost everything a CP does then there doesn't seem to be a reason to give extra SP (unless campaign staff decides to only for premieres if they do have trouble finding enough GMs).

As to how a theoretical Signature Point (SP) system could work, I can see benefits in both including and not including money. For some thing--such as my example about building weapons of special materials--to me it makes more sense to include money in the cost. Others, however, I find it makes less sense. There are arguments both for and against, mostly centring on the utility/uslessness of money in the game and the irritation of having to keep track of two separate forms of 'money' (Gc and SP).

I would like to encourage this discussion its pretty interesting but I would really like to urge folks to consider the acronyms, Sc SP VCP CP are all similar sounding and will probably lead to to confusion, so instead of Signature Points, or Customization Points, Motes of Divinity or Trademark Scraps , or spending some quality time with a thesarus to come up with even more interesting terms would be beneficial to the sanity of players and GM's alike

Hello,

I've been thinking and with the exception of special materials, you can already transfer a rune to any weapon or armor you wish (or so I believe).

Given that magic items mostly work off of runes, what exactly are we doing here? Just the purchase of runes and special mats?

If so, then we don't need the proposed system and can replace it with a very simple one that allows the above.

Am I missing something?

There are two types of Runes (Amalgamated and Permanent) that are not available for purchase. What I was proposing (as a possible system) was that this system could allow for access to these special types of Runes.

Clarification: Amalgamated Runes allow you to combine 2 runes into one slot, Permanent allows you to benefit from Two rune effects (ie: armour and weapon) from only a single rune scribed on a single item. Amalgamated CAN be transferred, but Permanent cannot.

What was proposed was the ability (at, in many cases, a heavy investment in accumulated [whatever we wish to call them] Points) to purchase these--at present--restricted items, much the same as the initial discussion was brought up for purchasing magical items which cannot at this time be purchased. This would create a certain economy for these items outside of what you can pick up inside of adventures. I suggest keeping it heavy, with something like a 1 [insert name here]/Adventure, and 20 [whatever they are called]/Tier of magic item. This means that the Crusade Arc would give a Hero some 28, meaning they can pick up a SINGLE item outside of the Mods which cannot be purchased normally at present.

I think adventures need to give out 1/Tier of adventure. Otherwise, people are basically limited to a single item ever (Tier 2 item would take almost all points from tier 1+2 adventures, Tier 3 item take almost all points from tier 1+2+3 adventures, etc). It would be simpler to just make items cost 20 points but then someone could play Crusade (Tier 1) and buy a Tier 2 item (as soon as the char is T2) - if that's not seen as a problem, then I'd say that's the way to go.