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 Post subject: European (English and German) Nobility Ranks - Milandir?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Okay, I have noticed over the years that there seems to be no set system in place for describing the nobility of Milandir (and Almeric. . . and among the Kio in some cases). Sometimes English noble titles are used, sometimes French (or anglicized French), and sometimes German. In keeping with my "In real life" GM aids that I'm writing up, I thought I would give a quick breakdown of historical noble titles, their modes of address, and how English titles (ie: Baron, Earl, etc) translate into German:

King/Queen = The ruler of a Kingdom. Known as König in German (Queen being Königin). In English tradition, they are typically referred to as "Your Majesty"

Prince(ess) = Typically the heir-apparent to the throne of a Kingdom. Known in German as Prinz(essin). The English mode of address would be "Your (Royal) Highness."

Duke/Duchess = The ruler of a Duchy, though the title is often granted to important members of the Royal family who are not in the immediate line of succession. The German equivalent of Duke is Herzog (feminine being Herzogin). The proper mode of address for a Duke is "Your Grace," or "The Duke of XXXX" (with XXXX being their holdings).

Margrave/Marquis = Typically the title given to the noble ruler of a border province of a kingdom (known as a March), with an example of this being the ruler of Milandir's Eastmarch. The German equivalent is Markgraf (feminine being Markgräfin). The proper mode of address would be "My Lord," or "Lord XXXX" with XXXXX being the title (ie: the Margrave of the Eastmarch would be "Lord Eastmarch" or "Markgraff von Eastmarch")

Count/Earl (Feminine = Countess) = The title Count has carried a number of meanings across history. In its most basic form, a Count/Earl is the noble ruler of a County, a smaller territorial subunit of a Duchy, though this is not always so. In many cases, Counts would simply be a prominent noble who owned a significant landhold (or, in modern times, significant property to be the equivalent of 'lands') while being lower-ranked in the peerage to a Duke. As such, County would probably be ruled by a Count, but not all Counts necessarily rule Counties. The German equivalent of Count is somewhat complicated in that there are several 'levels' of Count in the German peerage, those being (in order of precedence) Markgraf(in) (over a March, see above), Landgraf(in) (A Count who exercises control over specific lands), Pfalzgraf(in) (ruled over a 'palatial estate' which ), Burggraf(in) (ruler of a Castle, or 'Burg'), Altgraf(in) (a Graf who's title preceded the established peerage and is still granted a title), Reichsgraf(in) (a title granted by the king without preexisting lands), and Graf(in) (generic title). The proper mode of address of a Count/Graf is "My Lord," or "Lord XXXX" with XXXX being their peerage. Should a Count be of a specific landhold (say, The Count of [Town A]), they would also be referred to as "Count [Town A]" or "Graf von [Town A]." If the title was granted without a specific landhold, it would typically be assigned the title-holder's name (ie: Bob Smith would be "Lord Smith") or of a title granted to them when they were created a Count/Earl (ie: if they were granted the title after winning "The Battle of Green Fields, they could be known as the Count of Green Fields, or Lord Green Fields).

Viscount(ess) = Similar to a Count/Earl, but of a lower rank. Within England, the title originally was developed as an extension of Sheriff, and was non-hereditary, but soon evolved into a hereditary title of nobility (though I cannot think of a case where they would have lands beyond an estate). There is, however, no direct equivalent of a Viscount in the German peerage, though you could make a case about one of the lower-levels of "Graf" being appropriate. The modes of address are effectively the same as a Count/Graf.

Baron(ess) = The noble ruler of a Barony. A Barony could mean several things, depending on the era being spoken of our country of origin. Like the title of Count, it could refer to a specific geographical area, typically of less importance than a County, or it could simply be a title granted by the King to a noble which happens to be lower than that of a Count/Graf. If it is a geographical region, it is often associated with a county which is either less populated, less prominent, or less wealthy than that which would warrant a "Count" as its noble lord, or a subsection of a County. The German equivalent of Baron is Freiherr (feminine being Freifrau). The modes of address for Barons is effectively the same as that of Count or Viscount.

Baronet(ess) = A Baronet is an interesting title. Unlike the above titles, Baronet is NOT a peerage, but rather a hereditary knighthood. However, unlike a Knighthood, a Baronetcy is hereditary and is superior to all other Knighthoods within the ranks of nobility. To that end, all Baronet(ess) would be referred to as "Sir" or "Dame". In German nobility, there is no direct translation of "Baronet", so anyone of that rank would simply be referred to as a Lord, or Herr or Frau in German. When referring to them, you'd probably say "Sir XXXXX XXXXX, Baronet(ess)/Lord(Lady) of [Place or family name associated with the title]." They would not be referred to as "My Lord" or whatnot, but simply "Sir XXXX" (ie: Sir Bob).

Knight = This title is a minor nobility granted to a specific individual. This title and honour can take many forms, from being a "Knight" of a specific noble and managing certain aspects of their estate, to being a member of Knightly Order (ie: such as the Order of the Phoenix or the Order of the Dolphin Guard in Milandir), or simply a minor nobility granted by a noble ruler to honour an individual for some reason. The Knighthood would often grant some form of income for the individual (either from the sponsor directly, from lands given to them to own or to manage, or from the lands/assets controlled by the Knightly Order). In terms of titles, they would be referred to as "Sir" or "Dame", with the German equivalent being "Herr" and "Frau". They could also simply be referred to as "Ritter," the German word for "Rider", referring to the typical Knightly role as being a mounted warrior.

Interesting Note: If comparing these ranks to Coryani classes, a Knight/Baronet would be similar to the Equestrian class, as represented by the Equestrian (ba), while the peerage would be equivalent to the Senatorial Patrican class.

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 Post subject: Re: European (English and German) Nobility Ranks - Milandir?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:48 am 
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A Freiherr is essentially a German noble without lands as I understand it. A good title for a scion of the court whose mother or father holds relatively important lands, but who hasn't been given a specific territory to rule over yet. IMO its a fairly good analogue to the Baronet or landless Baron...and a great title to choose for people taking the Noble Born background.

Sometimes a Viscount seems to have equivalency to the rank of a Burgraf, as in the case of Roderick val'Tensen (ruler of Tresslau). Not sure what his title is now in the mess that is Almeric, but he was the Viscount of Tresslau in the old campaign. He had a chance to inherit the duchy of Moratavia, after his dad went mad, disappeared and then died, but Roderick was skillfully beaten out by his uncle during one of the LARPS.

The Duchy of Tralia is loosely based on Poland. Would be interesting to see if they have any unique titles.

Last the role of Knight Protector seems unique to Milandir and to be equal to that of a minor lord, though the position might not be hereditary. Otherwise perhaps like a Baron. Though likely less independent than a Lord would be. Ashavan is reasonably substantial and a strategically important town, but is ruled by a Knight Protector and not by a Burgraf or a Viscount.

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 Post subject: Re: European (English and German) Nobility Ranks - Milandir?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:04 am 
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Freiherr's CAN have land, though in the German tradition from my readings they were generally far inferior in lands and power, and subordinate to, a Herzog or Graf. As such, a "Barony" in the German tradition wouldn't be an independent county so to speak, but simply a region of a County or Duchy where the Freiherr exercises judicial and administrative control in the name of their liege lord.

As far as we know, Milandesian is German and, despite Tralia and the Eastmarch having a different linguistic tradition in their naming, their actual spoken language is still Milandesian. This would be similar to the fact that, despite me living in a British Commonwealth nation where English is spoken, my brother and I have very Scandinavian given names (either as our first or middle names) because it is tradition in our family.

That said, here is a good resource for comparative peerages across different languages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks

As for Knight Protector, using the example of the Gauptmann Family from A1-SP1 "Whispers of the Gods" being a Baronet rank, insofar as they were the Knight Protector of a region and that the senior-Gauptmann could pass his title onto his children (by how the family feud seemed to go).

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Cody Bergman
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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: European (English and German) Nobility Ranks - Milandir?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:48 pm
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The traditional terms are going to sound Germanic (because that is the feel we are going with) but people are also going to be called by the English versions, because it was a province of Coryan. Just like Austria or Germany. Nobody outside of the German speaking world talks about the assassination of Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand inciting WWI.

Some of the confusion comes from usage. Think of the books being written in High Coryani, but when you went to the LARP set at Osric's Court, people were introduced in Milandisian.


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