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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:32 am 
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Hey what can I say? Call 'em like I see 'em, good and bad. Overall that was one of the better mods I've played in a while. Looking forward to running it when I have more time to spin out the story. Just curious I assume there are things in the mod that will play out in future events? Cause I love foreshadowing.... :)

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:00 am 
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Haakon_val'Ishi wrote:
Fair enough, I can understand the reasons why. Comment still stands though, I do recommend GMs who can make a pregame cheat sheet. Flipping through books at that table interrupts the flow of the game. Even looking it up on a tablet takes time unfortunately. !


That's when I just start making things up (that are reasonable and fun for the table)

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:21 am 
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Oh I do that too, but more from a RP perspective than a game mechanics side. For example there's a particular scene in Blessed are the Heretics. One of the characters in a game I ran at Origins is a val'Mehan who runs around with a pair of Infernal "bodyguards." When they entered a room [No spoilers] they stopped, looked at each other and started taking 'notes.' Everybody at the table got a chuckle out of that.

But when it comes to game mechanics I want to get it right and do things by the numbers if at all possible. Best way to find out what works and what doesn't is to try it in game. Something that sounds good on paper may actually prove suboptimal in a fight.

While I will make up things on the fly I try to limit that, to avoid player perceptions that I am playing too fast and loose with the rules.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:23 am 
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mighty28 wrote:

As for Talents, if the Talent can be already factored into the stat block, it is (such as weapon mastery). I have been thinking of putting in non-factored Talents into bold or italics fonts to differentiate. I would eliminate the Talents that are already factored in, but I sometimes re-skin stats and if I delete Talents, I will not remember how the opponent was built.


Indicating which talents are included would be helpful. Perhaps 2 sections: Talents (Included in stats) and Talents (Please review) would be easiest for GM's.

I've said this before and I'll throw it out there again. Can we consolidate the stat blocks? In general, most enemies don't need to show 10-12 spells they can cast. Combats just don't go that long and some spells do very similar things. Most of these enemies are meant to be defeated, so whether they have 8,9 or 10 spells isn't important.

Perhaps it could work to categorize the types of spells they have:
1) Attack Spells: Elemental Bolt, Storm of Knives
2) Defense Spells: Inertial Shield, Arcane Shield
3) Healing Spells: Pound of Flesh

Really, I'd love us to take a look at 4th Edition in how they wrote their stat blocks for monsters/enemies. It was very simple. I understand when building an Encounter it's important to know what the bad guys get for the purposes of their EV, but once that's known, can the stat block be simplified and put in only the critical Adaptations that the casters can do with Passive Arcanum?

Here's an example:

Attack Spells:
Elemental Bolt (Base) [CTN 18; Spd/Str: 4 (+2); Instant; 30' (1 Target) vs. Avoidance]
Damage: d6 (Primary)
Adaptations:
2 Targets [CTN +3; Spd/Str: +0 (+2)]
30' (10' Radius) [CTN +6; Spd/Str: +2 (+4)]
+30' Range [CTN +2] (Multiple)
Die Bump [CTN +3; Spd/Str: +0 (+1)] (Multiple)

Not sure how much time this adds to the "Stat Person" but it would greatly help any GM's.

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:25 am 
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Haakon_val'Ishi wrote:
But when it comes to game mechanics I want to get it right and do things by the numbers if at all possible. Best way to find out what works and what doesn't is to try it in game. Something that sounds good on paper may actually prove suboptimal in a fight.

While I will make up things on the fly I try to limit that, to avoid player perceptions that I am playing too fast and loose with the rules.


My views (correct or not) are that "What happens behind the GM Screen, stays behind the GM Screen." If the choice is to spend 5 minutes looking up a spell to get it 100% correct or make something up that seems reasonable, adds to the fun, and doesn't insta-kill the players, I'll always choose B.

I always feel that it is more efficient to have 1 person spend 1-2 hours to go through and put in enough detail in the stat blocks for ALL GM's running it, rather than every GM who runs it putting in 2-3 hours time to do the same.

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:56 am 
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That's why I love my cheat sheet, it takes me seconds to flip a page as opposed to trying to find the right page in a book. Use one in Pride Goeth Before A Fall last week and it really made things go faster. Inflict Pain is such a fun spell.... :twisted: Plus if any questions come up I can simply show them the sheet.

As for "what happens behind the screen stays behind the screen," in general that holds especially in time sensitive scenarios like BIs. But if what happens seems "too good to be true" I guarantee you players will call you on it, just like a GM will question a player who does the same. It all comes down to trusting the players as a GM and the players trusting the GM. It can be a delicate balance.

To be clear John I am not challenging you on this, merely having a discussion here. By and large I agree with you.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Good call-out. I would never use the 'make something up' to penalize the players or characters at all. In general I'm familiar with a lot of things just by running. However, when a caster has 12 spells listed, I tend to concentrate on a few of them.

Your cheatsheet sounds like what would be great to have in the mods to begin with. Time is precious for me (as I know it is for all), so spending 1-2 hours reading/ getting familiar with a module from just a running standpoint combined with the 5-6 hours of prep/running the mode doesn't usually leave me another 1-2 hours to pre a cheatsheet. This is particularly true if I don't see myself running the mod again.

Now, perhaps a resource where GM's can publish/trade their own cheatsheets would be useful. That way if I create one, at least others can benefit, and vice versa.

John

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- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:50 pm 
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One of the things I do when looking at the bad guys spell list is looking for ones that make the most sense to use in the fight, quick and dirty as it were. Also anything that fits the character's description (unless already spelled out in tactics).

As for preparing a cheat sheet it's not hard but does take time to cut and paste, not to mention the reformatting that has to be done. Generally speaking I'd say it takes about 30 minutes. I don't see it taking 1-2 hours though. I suppose if one could take up to an hour if everything was included.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Haakon_val'Ishi wrote:
One of the things I do when looking at the bad guys spell list is looking for ones that make the most sense to use in the fight, quick and dirty as it were. Also anything that fits the character's description (unless already spelled out in tactics).

As for preparing a cheat sheet it's not hard but does take time to cut and paste, not to mention the reformatting that has to be done. Generally speaking I'd say it takes about 30 minutes. I don't see it taking 1-2 hours though. I suppose if one could take up to an hour if everything was included.


I've done a couple cheatsheets for modules with say 3 combats (and 2 BI's) and it took over an hour for the module between finding the Talents, Spells, and Maneuvers, writing out what they do, making notes on restrictions, etc. Now, knowing which Talents were included, and having the Speed/Recovery and Effects of Maneuvers will speed this along in the future. I also try to 'pre-compute' any advanced maneuvers or spells that I feel would be useful.

Again, perhaps it's a matter of sharing this work amongst GM's so one person isn't doing cheatsheets for every mod they run. I'm not sure where this fits into the 'fair use' for copyright or how PCI could (or even should) support this for the GM's.

John

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- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: GM Aid in Mods
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:47 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:37 am
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Location: Leeds, England
mighty28 wrote:
When stats are written, under the "Special" section, I list the martial techniques with a Speed/recovevery and the bare bones effect. The only thing the judge has to do is the quick math if he makes them advanced maneuvers.

As for Talents, if the Talent can be already factored into the stat block, it is (such as weapon mastery). I have been thinking of putting in non-factored Talents into bold or italics fonts to differentiate. I would eliminate the Talents that are already factored in, but I sometimes re-skin stats and if I delete Talents, I will not remember how the opponent was built.

As for spells...well, spells suck. They take up a TON of room in stat blocks beccause of the various adaptations/manipulations. IIRC, i wrote out the combat options for Elemental Bolt for some of the Harvesters at this year's Arcanicon...it nearly doubled the size of the stat block. (and that was only 1 of their spells)


Break the talents block into an 'Active' and a 'Passive' block, where the passive either have no foreseeable use in the adventure or are already factored into the NPC stats.

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