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 Post subject: Lines and Veils
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:26 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
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Hey, everyone has their own triggers and things they are uncomfortable with. I one had a roomate that just could not deal with frogs, and you may thing this was a "haha funny" kind of reaction no this was a deathly afraid kind of reaction, the kind thats not cool to taunt people with. It became apparent to me that there was a line that you didn't cross with this guy and Frogs were on the wrong side of that line.

I myself am not comfortable with graphic description of sexual things that happen during game, I choose to let that happen offscreen if it happens at all during a game, a lot of people refer to this as drawing a veil over the actions, and I don't have to press the issue often but I do have to press the issue from time to time.

But then again its pretty common for RPGs to want to explore "questionable" topics, topics where people have lines and veils. I remember a fantastic mod from the beginning of the living greyhawk days where a bunch of xvarts (think blue kobalds) were kidnapping children, and the module very clearly put the reasons behind that at the discretion of the GM, because it certainly crossed lines and Veils.

Most of our players and GM's have no problem respecting other peoples lines and veils, and that's FANTASTIC, but some people dont respect that with other people and the people that are having their gaming ideals disrespected, may not say anything, they may just leave and never come back. so when you are out there playing try to keep an eye out for others that look uncomfortable and talk to them about it, or people that are engaging in line/veil crossing behavior and ask them to stop.

if you do see someone crossing lines/veils, please report it to convention staff or campaign staff so that the issue can be taken care of.

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--Josh Elliott
Oswald val'Inares V, The Seeker of the Val'Inares
Harvester Lord of the Eastern Fields of Iowa


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 Post subject: Re: Lines and Veils
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:28 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
the initial discussion was from this article
http://www.vice.com/read/notallroleplayers-a-history-of-rapey-dungeon-masters

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--Josh Elliott
Oswald val'Inares V, The Seeker of the Val'Inares
Harvester Lord of the Eastern Fields of Iowa


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 Post subject: Re: Lines and Veils
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 2109
Location: Portland OR
Good web pages. I wasn't familiar with either of them. Thanks for the heads up.

I largely share Josh's sentiments. I also prefer details of sex (and torture) to take place "off stage" when RPing through the process these webpages call veils. I appreciate that Arcanis touches on adult themes; and I want a more morally complicated sandbox now as an adult than I wanted as a kid. But I personally want "adult topics" handled tastefully and with a light touch.

I've had very positive experiences with the "judge pool" of arcanis gamemasters. But I'm also a guy. Hopefully the fact that I meat and play with a lot of strong female players out there too means the campaign is essentially getting it right.

Beyond judges, I also think module writers shoulder a lot of the burden on setting the tone in their adventures. In the last campaign the module 7th Sin was a good example of essentially "getting it right." There was some icky stuff going on with an incubus posing as "the Tongue of Larissa," and its impacts on an especially debauched group of Sensates. But it was almost all suggested and offstage. In this campaign I also appreciated Long March Dark Coda for its treatment of torture in Canceri. The domed cities are cruel, debauched, screwed up places. But again it was made apparent without ever dwelling on it or becoming the focus of the adventure.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Lines and Veils
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
Posts: 960
Location: Southwestern Ohio
I think both players and GMs should discuss what makes them uncomfortable before play begins, GMs especially if you think there is something in the mod that might cross the line. I have no problem dialing things back. As a player there's not much that will shock me or make me uncomfortable at the table. If it makes the players angry and motivates them to be heroes because of the actions of the bad guys all the better for them. But I always try to respect people at the table. The whole point of the exercise is to have fun, it something impacts someone's fun it should be dealt with in an adult respectable manner.

My classic example of this is the old Freeport mod Seventh Sin. Our GM Sean Esterline (a minister no less :) asked everyone at the table how adult to make the mod. We said bring it on and had a blast. Conversely he sent his teenage daughter to the "PG-13" table in the other room. As it should be. Everyone was happy and had a good time. But we knew what were getting into so no lines were crossed.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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