Last visit was: It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:25 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1721
Location: Portland OR
Yig has plenty of mammalian followers via Anshar. But the (traditional) Temple of Yig is dominated by Ssanu and Yissera. They wouldn't take a human as I understand it.

(I would also note that it's been hinted that Yig prefers her reptilian followers to the pink skins.)

I can't see the Matriarchy of the Fire Dragon/Kassegore taking human acolytes, ever. Nor should humans generally want to. Fire Dragon is Nier...right?

Jeggal Sag is a more interesting question, but given that it was Valinor who put him in the mound I don't think he's too hot on the children of the Imperium.

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 767
Location: Michigan
val Holryn wrote:
Jeggal Sag is a more interesting question, but given that it was Valinor who put him in the mound I don't think he's too hot on the children of the Imperium.


Honestly, I don't expect gods to care. Its really all about the church who has the teachings of that god, and what they are willing to share.

I could see the followers of Jeggal Sag holding a grudge, considering the story. But consider that:
1. If a valinor bound him, it might help to have a human help release him
2. There are indications from a recent prophecy that the 12 dragons are not children of Kassegore and Yig (like Jeggal Sag was) and should not be here. If that is the case it is questionable if Jeggal Sag really sacrificed himself to save one. The popular story may not be the true story. (But isn't that always the case in Arcanis?) (see Beast's story, chapter one for the prophecy referenced - though that story no longer jives with our understanding of the Ghost Scale religion and hierarchy)

_________________
AKA Kavaris, awakened "Human" from the Hinterlands, psionic transmutation specialist, adventurer, and no one important


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2381
Location: Central Alberta
toodeep wrote:
Disciple of Jeggal Sag says that it is open to any ssethric race. Obviously this is essentially true, but my character has received some education in the teachings of Jeggal Sag (from a PC disciple). Though I have not dedicated myself to him, it was implied that the Shaman of Jeggal Sag would be open to a convert and if I would pledge myself I could become one.

That raises the question of non ssethric converts, not just to Jeggal Sag, but also possibly of the fire dragon. While I understand these would essentially be unique circumstances, I could see someone who regularly gets saved by BEAST, say, converting to the fire dragon despite not being a ssethric race.

Are the ssethric gods open to mammalian worshippers, and just as importantly, our their clergy open to teaching them? My opinion has always been probably no for the Fire Dragon (or at least his church) and probably yes for Jeggal Sag (if you consider that worship) since they seem a pretty open organization; but based on these rules I'm inclined to say no for both.

Can you tell us the church's viewpoint on converts? If Jeggal Sag is open to converts, would it be appropriate to change the racial requirements for the path?


You seem to be showing a major misunderstanding how a shaman's pact works. They do not simply 'worship' the primal beings and spirits who grant them their power, the forge PACTS with them. As such, simply 'worshiping' Jeggal Sag does absolutely nothing, and for one of his followers to teach you their spells means literally nothing because it is Jeggal Sag who provides the power, and the shaman is merely a conduit. In terms of Jeggal Sag being 'open to converts', as it stands right now there are no known examples of non-Ssethrics joining the Cult. The ssethrics tend to be VERY isolationist on their religion (read the Black Talon section for an example), and the Cult is that: a cult. It is a closed society of like-minded people who worship Jeggal Sag and make deals with him for magical abilities.

In terms of beings like Kassegore and the Fire Dragon, we know that non-ssethrics CAN worship them, just like we know that non-humans can worship the Pantheon of Man (dwarves, Ashen Hides, etc). The issue with how divine spells work is "who will teach you?" These are cants, which means they are rituals learned by rote and not gifted by the Gods. As such, you can worship Illiir all you want, but if nobody teaches you how to cast His spells, you can't do much. This matter is complicated further by the rather. . . sensitive views a lot of these churches have for 'foreign' Gods. A Black Talon worshiping Hurrian is likely to get a firm talking to by the Ssethric Inquisitors of the Fire Dragon.

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:30 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2381
Location: Central Alberta
toodeep wrote:
Honestly, I don't expect gods to care.


I should point out: Illiir tends to be EXTREMELY protective about humans, and seems to give very little care to other races as was seen by cursing the dwarves. It appears that at least some of the Gods do care about who worships them, and places some higher than others for whatever reasons they may have.

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 767
Location: Michigan
Nierite wrote:
toodeep wrote:
Honestly, I don't expect gods to care.


I should point out: Illiir tends to be EXTREMELY protective about humans, and seems to give very little care to other races as was seen by cursing the dwarves. It appears that at least some of the Gods do care about who worships them, and places some higher than others for whatever reasons they may have.


Well, yes he is very protective of humans, but he lets pretty much anyone worship him, right? We know of at least 4 distinct races that have worshipped him, and only one of those is human.

_________________
AKA Kavaris, awakened "Human" from the Hinterlands, psionic transmutation specialist, adventurer, and no one important


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:24 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2381
Location: Central Alberta
You seem to be misunderstanding my point, though I may not have picked the best example. I was commenting to the fact that you stated that you believed that the Gods didn't care who worshiped them, and I was countering that with "at least some of them do seem to care." In terms of Illiir and the dwarves, there is something to be said about worship vs. appeasement (actually worshiping Illiir as their God as opposed to venerating him to stave off his ire), but until we get a Celestial Giant perspective on the matter I'm not sure we can 100% make claims about how that works.

As to your claim of "four races" worshiping Illiir, I must ask what 4? Humanity (including vals, dark-kin, kio, gnomes, and undir) worship Illiir as they are all "His Children" even if the included races are collections of half-breeds, and the dwarves recognize his power (the Solani seem to genuinely worship him, the rest are more appease, and the Encali and Bealaki are actively hostile). What other races did you have in mind?

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 7:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 767
Location: Michigan
Nierite wrote:
What other races did you have in mind?


Human, dwarf (actually all giants, not just celestial appear to worship the PoM now), Khi’Faree (sacrifice of generations, after the PoM wiped out most their gods, dead now?), Rualka (on the plane that blew up because of the plane hopping Myrantian fortress, destroyed by the Myrantians)

_________________
AKA Kavaris, awakened "Human" from the Hinterlands, psionic transmutation specialist, adventurer, and no one important


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 7:40 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2381
Location: Central Alberta
Ahh, gotcha.

To the Khi’Faree we have their "God"'s word that the PoM specifically led them to their destruction, so while they were worshiped I do not personally (emphasis on personally) believe that Illiir had any interest in their worship. He wanted them out of the way so Humans could thrive.

The Rualka are a more complicated question, as they were on a 'front line' plane on the war with oblivion, so it is also possible that Illiir was simply using them also. Sure, there was veneration on their part, but Illiir (to me personally) did not seem to care about them a lick.

Now, this isn't to say Illiir really gives a toss about humanity either, but this same argument. He seems to have invested a lot in them, but it could just be he sees them as a better return on investment than these other races.

Anyway, to bring this thread back to the topic at hand: No, there is no intent to open up the Disciples to any non-Ssethric race. As always this may change in the future with story points, but until that time happens the racial component will remain.

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ssethregore, varied comments
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 767
Location: Michigan
Nierite wrote:
Ahh, gotcha.
The Rualka are a more complicated question, as they were on a 'front line' plane on the war with oblivion, so it is also possible that Illiir was simply using them also. Sure, there was veneration on their part, but Illiir (to me personally) did not seem to care about them a lick.


Actually, those on the front line with oblivion were the Fihali. If you consider them then that is a 5th race. :)

But to get back to the main point of the thread...

I am waiting with baited breath for the bestiary. I look forward to seeing the stats for the drake that "Path of the Drake" allows a tier IV primal caster to change into.

Also, I've had a little confusion in reading the text of the book, but only in the flavor parts, never the rules. Pg 156 in the text about the Laksiri is a good example, but is not the only case. The terms wizard and sorcerer are used in the story text, but those really have no meaning in ARG, and with the way things are changing in 5e, I'm not sure if they are accurate description in 5e either. I recommend taking a look at the uses of those words to be clearer. It's fine if wizard=elder caster and sorcerer=eldritch, but I think that needs to be consistent and ideally defined as such somewhere; and it should be checked to make sure it aligns with the upcoming 5e use of the words too, if nothing else.

_________________
AKA Kavaris, awakened "Human" from the Hinterlands, psionic transmutation specialist, adventurer, and no one important


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki