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 Post subject: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:40 pm 

Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 38
Some of the psionic powers have multiple expressions. To what level does the "Nth level Expression" refer?
  • Manifesting level from the Psion table? Seems likely, but it caps at 5th, and the Burst power has a 9th level expression. Typo? If so, what level should the last tier be?
  • Psion level seems like it's too generous. Again looking at Burst, that would give Psions haste at 3rd level overall. Even for val, that's a bit OP.
  • Another option I've missed?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
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Location: Portland OR
On the first point, as you reach high levels you gain grand expressions which effectively give you spell slots from 6-9. So to power your 9th level expression from Burst would have to run off of your 9th level grand expression slot.

I don’t have the book in front of me so I am of less help on the second issue of haste. Are you sure it’s based off of psionic level and not instead of “spell” level? You gain slots of a maximum level as you go up in psionic. I do not believe that you can manifest 3rd level powers until 5th level... i’ll Heck later tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:47 am 
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okay. Checked the book. When you manifest an expression from a psionic power the level of the Expression is not your level as a psion (though psion level often governs effects when you are using the base level of the power, like a cantrip) but your maximum "manifested level" is shown on the far end of the psion table on page 132.

To manifest a 3rd level expression you need to be 5th level.

To manifest haste as an expression from the power of Burst you need to be 5th level.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
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Location: Miami Florida
Correct

if you look at the book Burst has the following expressions

Quote:
Expression: You may manifest a spell-like effect that mimics the spell expeditious retreat.

3rd level expression: You may manifest a spell-like effect that mimics the spell haste.

9th level expression: You may manifest this power as part of a Dash action. If you do so, you triple your movement rate and can run across any liquid or hazardous surface without taking damage or suffering any condition effect. If you have not crossed the surface or hazard by the end of the movement, you suffer normal effects of the surface or hazard. (e.g., you can run across a field of lava, but if you don’t make it all the way across, you’re cooked.)



Thus you can not manifest a 3rd level expression till you reach your 5th level of psion.

and the 9th level expression is a greater expression

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 Post subject: Re: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:08 pm 

Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 38
Hey Pedro,

I'm missing something, somewhere.... I'm assuming you mean grand expressions rather than greater expressions, which don't appear in the text...

Grand Expressions are defined on pages 133 and 289:
A5Ep133 wrote:
... You may manifest one of any of the grand expressions granted by your psionic disciplines of 11th level once. At higher levels you receive access to more powerful grand expressions, but still may only manifest one each of any particular level. For example, at 16th level you may manifest one each of your 11th, 13th, and 15th level grand expressions. You regain all uses of the feature after a long rest.
I don't see any text there that lets me manifest a psionic power using a grand expression, since they come from disciplines.
A5Ep289 wrote:
... Unless otherwise noted, manifesting a grand expression requires an action. These effects and spells are manifested at a spell level equal to your manifesting level.
By this text, a 16th-level Psion with a primary discipline of Psychoportation would manifest it's 11th-level disintegrate and 15th-level maze grand expressions as 5th-level spells (for the purposes of counterspell, etc.), because that's where manifesting level in the table maxes out.

If I'm reading this properly, there's no such thing as a "9th level expression". It would cap at 5th, available at psion level 9.

So, I'm back to my original question: Should Burst read "5th level expression" rather than "9th level expression"?

The follow up is: are there errata changes to the way grand expressions are defined in the book, to either change the manifested-spell-level to match the actual-spell-level, or to allow psionic powers to be manifested using those "slots"?

Thanks!

James


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 Post subject: Re: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:29 pm 
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you are correct, I meant grand expressions

but you are correct the power level of the ability really falls more in line with a 5th level spell...

The more and more I read it over it should be a "5th level expression" rather than "9th level expression"

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 Post subject: Re: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1308
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
"...but you are correct the power level of the ability really falls more in line with a 5th level spell...

The more and more I read it over it should be a "5th level expression" rather than "9th level expression"


However, until official errata is released, it should still be played as a 9th level expression.

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 Post subject: Re: Psionic power expression levels
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:24 pm 

Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 38
Thanks for the responses. That notation just made me think I was missing something.

James


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