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 Post subject: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:00 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:21 am
Posts: 19
Question 1: Between the Worlds
In the 5e Primer, there is a new warlock ability Between the World, where the warlock "...become[s] attuned to the spirit world around you, allowing you to detect the presence of any
undead creatures and spirits as well as disturbances in the fabric of the [spirit] realm." The discussion of Spiritual Patrons is broader than undead, but the central ability Between the World is limited to undead. The power has a tremendous drawback in that creatures you sense, also know of your presence (if you use it, there will be no sneaking up on them).

The question is whether this was intentional to limit the power to undead, or whether the power was intended to allow the character to sense elementals, nature spirits and other outsiders. If only undead, it seems to diminish the concept of "spirit-speakers", as it makes it seem like the only spirits to which they can communicate are undead. This also seems counter to the Ehtzara's Spiritual Etiquette which gives bonuses to talking with "...any extra planar being, spirit, or certain kinds of undead." There is a specific list then given.

Question 2: Evil Eye Spell
In Magic of Arcanis, Reforged, Evil Eye is a new spell for the Ehtzara. It is a reworking of the Hex spell from D&D5e, but there is one difference that hamstrings this spell. With the Hex spell, you can retarget the spell if the first target dies. This makes the extended duration when cast at higher level an advantage. Evil Eye does not have the same retargeting mechanism, thus the spell ends when the target of Evil Eye dies, making the higher level version less usable. Was it intended for Evil Eye to end when a target dies, or was it intended to work like Hex, and allow for retargeting when a target dies?


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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Posting for updates...

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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Evil Eye works as intended. It's meant to simulate the lengendary hex abilities of witches, warlocks, etc. The spell ends when the target dies. It's not meant to be a combat spell.

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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:57 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
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Location: Miami Florida
bioramaxwell wrote:
Question 2: Evil Eye Spell
In Magic of Arcanis, Reforged, Evil Eye is a new spell for the Ehtzara. It is a reworking of the Hex spell from D&D5e, but there is one difference that hamstrings this spell. With the Hex spell, you can retarget the spell if the first target dies. This makes the extended duration when cast at higher level an advantage. Evil Eye does not have the same retargeting mechanism, thus the spell ends when the target of Evil Eye dies, making the higher level version less usable. Was it intended for Evil Eye to end when a target dies, or was it intended to work like Hex, and allow for retargeting when a target dies?


In fact it's a little better than Hex

"Additionally, for the duration of the spell, you may use an action to force the target to make a successful Wisdom saving throw or suffer disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn."

if the spell that keeps on giving...

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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:52 am
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PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
In fact it's a little better than Hex

"Additionally, for the duration of the spell, you may use an action to force the target to make a successful Wisdom saving throw or suffer disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn."

if the spell that keeps on giving...


I respectfully disagree. Evil Eye requires the caster to give up his action to force a saving throw for someone to have a chance to have disadvantage on an attack roll. Whereas the other gives disadvantage on all ability checks based on a chosen attribute.

Evil Eye is like the Vicious Mockery, but without the damage. Having to use up an action each time you want a chance to give them disadvantage on just an attack roll is a bad trade off in my opinion. (In addition, if I use my action for that, I can't swing or cast a spell and do damage that would be increased by 1d6).

I would suggest changing it to a bonus action. I would also suggest expanding the disadvantage to include ability checks and possibility saving throws. This really puts it in the realm of a bad luck curse.

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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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I don't think the trade off is so bad. Just cast it on NPC's that are going to live a while..... Much more fun to watch them drop things out of combat.

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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:17 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 103
bioramaxwell wrote:
Question 1: Between the Worlds
In the 5e Primer, there is a new warlock ability Between the World, where the warlock "...become[s] attuned to the spirit world around you, allowing you to detect the presence of any
undead creatures and spirits as well as disturbances in the fabric of the [spirit] realm." The discussion of Spiritual Patrons is broader than undead, but the central ability Between the World is limited to undead. The power has a tremendous drawback in that creatures you sense, also know of your presence (if you use it, there will be no sneaking up on them).

The question is whether this was intentional to limit the power to undead, or whether the power was intended to allow the character to sense elementals, nature spirits and other outsiders. If only undead, it seems to diminish the concept of "spirit-speakers", as it makes it seem like the only spirits to which they can communicate are undead. This also seems counter to the Ehtzara's Spiritual Etiquette which gives bonuses to talking with "...any extra planar being, spirit, or certain kinds of undead." There is a specific list then given.

Question 2: Evil Eye Spell
In Magic of Arcanis, Reforged, Evil Eye is a new spell for the Ehtzara. It is a reworking of the Hex spell from D&D5e, but there is one difference that hamstrings this spell. With the Hex spell, you can retarget the spell if the first target dies. This makes the extended duration when cast at higher level an advantage. Evil Eye does not have the same retargeting mechanism, thus the spell ends when the target of Evil Eye dies, making the higher level version less usable. Was it intended for Evil Eye to end when a target dies, or was it intended to work like Hex, and allow for retargeting when a target dies?


1) This is a good question and we can clarify it in the primer. I think the difficulty can be erased by providing a side-bar on what spirits are and making the ability sense spirits. But I will check on that and update the primer if need be.

2) Since Pedro and Henry have stepped in, we have the answer here. For my part, I think evil eye could stand a second look. But I won't say anything definite.

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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:21 am
Posts: 19
Auroris wrote:

2) Since Pedro and Henry have stepped in, we have the answer here. For my part, I think evil eye could stand a second look. But I won't say anything definite.


I should clarify why I bring up "Evil Eye". It is not the power level of the spell, or even the ability to use an action to attempt to force the cursed character's to have disadvantage on their next attack roll. The problem with the spell is that there is no scaling when casting at higher level.

Hex scales because the curse can be moved from one target to the next, and you can just keep the spell going. Evil eye does not have that scaling. Keeping Evil Eye up for hours only works if you know you are going to be encountering the target later. In that case, this works better as an NPC ability, than a PC spell (unless of course you plan on betting at a gladiatorial arena).

I also have to disagree that this is not a combat spell. It augments damage, and can be used to force disadvantage on an attack roll; it is a combat spell. There are no significant out of combat abilities associated with the spell. I can see an out of combat use for a curse spell to cause an orator to stumble during a speech (disadvantage on an ability check), but the wording of spell is specific to combat actions, specifically an attack.

With the goal being a simulation of fairy tale/folklore hexes and curses, this falls short. As a replacement for the Hex spell, it does not work due to the scaling.

I also have to add that one major pains in 5e is to have to give up your action to keep an ability active; having it linked to a saving through each round makes it worse. For example, Wizard Enchanter has the ability Hypnotic Gaze. If the target fails the initial saving throw, you can keep the target enthralled for up to five round, the catch being that you have use your action to keep them enthralled (they don't get a save, it ends when you break contact or five rounds is up). It sucks that you have to give up an action each round, but it works if it ties up a big threat for five rounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 103
Those are all fantastic points. I will take them to Pedro and see if we can review the spell.

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 Post subject: Re: Warlock/Ehtzara: Two Questions
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:21 am
Posts: 19
In thinking about it over the past week, I have an alternative for consideration that may provide more of the curse concept that Henry was speaking about. This removes the damage modifier, but beefs up the curse effect.

Evil Eye (Variant)
1st level enchantment
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V
Duration: concentration, up to 1 minute

With a vicious glare, you lay a curse upon a creature you can see within range. The creature must make a successful Charisma saving throw, or be cursed. If successful, the creature can not be targeted by you with this spell until you finish a long rest. Until the spell ends, or the victim dies, once each round you can, as a reaction, force the target to make a single attack, saving throw, skills or ability checks at disadvantage.

If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use an action on a subsequnt turn of yours to curse a new creature.

A remove curse cast on the target ends this spell early.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.


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