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 Post subject: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:12 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:54 am
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Does the Arcane Training feature of the Encali dwarf automatically give you the Arcane Arcanum spell casting feature? And therefor lock you out of getting another Arcanum?

In my desired case, in very interested in playing a Encali Ranger (Arcane? + Primal)
Or would my character end up being a primal spell caster that has access to two wizard cantrips?

ARCANE TRAINING
You know two cantrips of your choice from the wizard’s spell list, using Intelligence as your spellcasting ability score. Also, unlike other dwarves, you may gain access to the Arcanum (Spellcasting feature) from a class which casts arcane spells (such as wizard or sorcerer) or any
archetype which grants arcane spell casting, such as Eldritch Knight.

Under the MULTICLASSING section
No character can have access to more than one of the Arcanum.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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This raises an interesting question. But my understanding is that once you have Arcane some anywhere you are stuck with Arcane as your only choice. The reason is that the Encali are so closely tied to their beliefs that Arcane is a Gift from Sarish it is anethema to them to start begging the spirits for spells the way rangers do. So the answer is, for now, likely no you can't be a ranger who is Encali.

HOWEVER, there is no reason why you can't be an Encali from the woods who likes to explore things. Consider taking a Rouge with an appropriate background. Rouge is much more variable than "Thief".

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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:09 pm 
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I believe it is supposed to lead into "Sorcerer-Priest" as a source. Will need the full book when it comes out.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:54 am
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Seems like my idea is mute anyway... As I missed the generic dwarf feature which limited them to Divine Arcana instead... No dwarven rangers/Druids can exist for the current sub-races :(

I think the question still needs to be answered.
Perhaps cantrips should be excluded from the Arcana rule?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:09 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
Solzak wrote:
Seems like my idea is mute anyway... As I missed the generic dwarf feature which limited them to Divine Arcana instead... No dwarven rangers/Druids can exist for the current sub-races :(

I think the question still needs to be answered.
Perhaps cantrips should be excluded from the Arcana rule?


Yes, it does seem to still need to be answered because by this reading Encali dwarves cannot be clerics, divine champions, or paladins since they all already have access to arcane spellcasting to begin with, and thus none can have access to divine.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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Yea, that is good point. Sorcerer Priest is the obvious choice for Encali. I am sure that that and Holy Champion Sarish will fix this.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:38 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:52 am
Posts: 65
By this reading, multiple races would have restrictions based on cantrips that they receive : aka val'Mehans would also be blocked to Divine and Primal classes, Ardakene would only have access to Divine, Kelekene only have access to Arcane, val'Assante only Divine, val'Tensen - etc.

But I don't think that that is the intention.

The way that I feel that the rules are intended:

Solani Dwarves - Divine Casting classes
Encali Dwarves - Divine and Arcane Casting classes
val'Mehan - All classes

Just because you get a cantrip as a part of your race, does not restrict you only to casting classes related to that cantrip.

Lucas

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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Paldaris wrote:
By this reading, multiple races would have restrictions based on cantrips that they receive : aka val'Mehans would also be blocked to Divine and Primal classes, Ardakene would only have access to Divine, Kelekene only have access to Arcane, val'Assante only Divine, val'Tensen - etc.

But I don't think that that is the intention.

The way that I feel that the rules are intended:

Solani Dwarves - Divine Casting classes
Encali Dwarves - Divine and Arcane Casting classes
val'Mehan - All classes

Just because you get a cantrip as a part of your race, does not restrict you only to casting classes related to that cantrip.

Lucas


Yes, I agree that with various bloodline powers this would be a trick situation if they do restrict potential classes. I think it would probably be most easily solved by a statement in the races section about racial powers and talents not counting as spellcasting of a certain type for the purposes of determining compatibility with other types of spellcasting.

But only if that is actually the intent. If it not the intent though, it should be very clearly spelled out in entries when taking a bloodline talent or when a racial ability prohibits you from taking another type of casting.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Supporting the view that cantrips and racial abilities do not count as an Arcanum (for rules purposes) is the Primer. Important definitions bolded.

Primer pg.45 wrote:
If you are a spell caster you may not utilize either the Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster feat to learn spells from an opposed Arcanum (arcane, divine, or primal) of magic. For example, if you are a wizard you cannot take Ritual Caster to learn divine rituals.

Choosing these feats also restricts your multiclass options. If you choose to learn a divine spell and cantrips though the Magic Initiate feat you are no longer able to multiclass into any arcane spellcasting class or take an archetype which grants arcane spell casting.


It appears that characters are not locked until they take one of the classes listed on Pg.45 or either of the above feats.

Encali still can't take Druid, Ranger or Warlock (Spirits Patron) due to racial restrictions.

val'Mehan are still a (conceptual) problem but they don't actually get the Ritual Caster feat for their blood power, working around the listed Arcanum restriction. However, if they are not taking Sorcerer-Priest as their source, the PC should be burned at the stake as a heretic anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Encali Dwarf Ranger possible?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 103
The question of how racially granted cantrips and spells affects multiclassing is a great one! I hope to have an answer for you soon. I have some ideas of how I think it should work but experience has taught me that research is required before I just post things :lol:

I will make an official post about this before the end of the month.

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