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 Post subject: Thoughts on Codex of the Mind
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:48 am 
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This is not long for the world, but there really isn't a clear place on Discord to put a review of the 5E mechanics of Codex of the Mind. So I'll leave it here for as long as it lasts.

Overall, its another good PCI product and I'm sure players of awakened val will rejoice at all the crunchy options. The Grey Hunters, Flame Dancers, Necropsych, Occisors, Pryrokineticist and Storm Callers are all things that I find really interesting. The Silence as a Warlock Patron is also an interesting idea.

Some other parts of it I want to comment on.

(1) Sources of Magic? This is all good story, but why is it in a Codex of the Mind book? This is not the only material that I wondered, "Why it is here?" The reprinted material from Tzihet from the Heresy book, the Inquisitor option from the Legio Lex book, and Suromar ranger option all had me asking that. On the one hand - hey its a freebie book for kickstarter people. On the other hand ... Tzihet is just off topic. And Inquisitors are already in print. If you want to play an Inquisitor then buy the book and support PCI. Suromar is on topic ... but is it fair to make an elorii player get this val book to get access to it? I think it belongs somewhere else. I think ALL these topics probably belong in different products. My opinion.

(2) Stacking. In the Archmind, Do Mind Palace and Greater Knowledge stack? Do you triple the proficiency bonus? That looks wrong to me.

(3) Saving Throws [part 1]. I really dislike that when you multi class into Psion you get additional proficiencies with additional saving throw(s). Compared to other multi classing/feat options I think that's overly generous. I also think it's odd that you can multi class to get heavy armor proficiency by taking the psion class (sentinel) while doing the same with Fighter or Holy Champion only gives you medium armor proficiency. Also ...

(4) Saving Throws [part 2] All the core classes in 5e grant characters proficiency in one of the "big 3" saves (Con, Dex, Wis) with a save from one of the lesser 3 (Str, Int, Cha). Several psions classes break this rule. I guess its cool for the Empathic Healers who get both Con & Wis and flat out have the best save package in 5e. They literally bleed to make most of their powers work so I'm actually okay with this "gift." Its not so cool for the "losers" who get punished with Int & Cha as their saving throws (Shadow Callers, Hydrokineticist, and Sirens). Those three archetypes do not get a proficiency bonus against saves vs ANY of: poisons/polymorphs, fireballs/boom spells, or charm/mind control spells. They only have proficiency against Illusions (from Int) and .... the banishment spell (Cha really doesn't do much...). Ouch! I feel especially bad for the Shadow Callers because they are presumably hanging out with stealthy/nimble val'Borda types who dodge boom spells as matter of course. ...between part 1 and part 2 I think this needs a second editorial look.

(5) Psionic powers that augment melee attacks like Beguiling Strike migrated from psion to psychic warrior. Did designers consider how multiple attacks would impact the utility of these powers? As written, something like Beguiling Strike is great at 1-4 level, but not that great at 5th level when psychic warriors get a second attack. (I personally would rather take the second attack). At some point at high levels the utility of the ever growing extra damage might become more valuable. I question how this fits mechanically.

(6) Missing Content?: On the ARG side of the rules there is a lot of spells and powers that any awakened character can get that are designed to fight entropic creatures. Gladius of Light, Voice in the Silence etc etc. Is there a 5e equivalent? I feel strongly that there should be...

(7) The Voiceless One. CR: 6?!? My 8th level character can solo it as written... grossly underpowered

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AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Codex of the Mind
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1472
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the Codex of the Mind Backer Edition PDF.

My responses to your comments are inline.

val Holryn wrote:
Overall, its another good PCI product and I'm sure players of awakened val will rejoice at all the crunchy options. The Grey Hunters, Flame Dancers, Necropsych, Occisors, Pryrokineticist and Storm Callers are all things that I find really interesting. The Silence as a Warlock Patron is also an interesting idea.


Thank you.

val Holryn wrote:
Some other parts of it I want to comment on.

(1) Sources of Magic? This is all good story, but why is it in a Codex of the Mind book? This is not the only material that I wondered, "Why it is here?"


I placed it here as I wanted to show how the four different sources of magic work. Given that Psionics is one of he sources, I think it applicable.

val Holryn wrote:
The reprinted material from Tzihet from the Heresy book, the Inquisitor option from the Legio Lex book, and Suromar ranger option all had me asking that. On the one hand - hey its a freebie book for kickstarter people. On the other hand ... Tzihet is just off topic.


I disagree. Since madness is a possible byproduct of certain attacks or effects of psionics, we felt it an appropriate to add it.

val Holryn wrote:
And Inquisitors are already in print. If you want to play an Inquisitor then buy the book and support PCI.


True, but many , and by that I mean the vast majority, of backers who received this PDF do not have a copy of the LLT PDF. It was applicable here and so added.

val Holryn wrote:
Suromar is on topic ... but is it fair to make an elorii player get this val book to get access to it? I think it belongs somewhere else.


Such as? There's not an elorii book planned anytime soon. Where else would you suggest we place it?

val Holryn wrote:
I think ALL these topics probably belong in different products. My opinion.


Fair enough. Such as?

val Holryn wrote:

(2) Stacking.
(3) Saving Throws [part 1].
(4) Saving Throws [part 2]
(5) Psionic powers that augment melee attacks....


I don't do rules stuff, but I'll pass it along to Pete.

val Holryn wrote:
(6) Missing Content?: On the ARG side of the rules there is a lot of spells and powers that any awakened character can get that are designed to fight entropic creatures. Gladius of Light, Voice in the Silence etc etc. Is there a 5e equivalent? I feel strongly that there should be...


Oh there's lots of content that didn't make the cut: Psionic Dueling, the val'Cessari, more of everything. Those will need to wait until the full Codex of the Mind book (est. at between 208 to 224 pages) is released.

val Holryn wrote:
(7) The Voiceless One. CR: 6?!? My 8th level character can solo it as written... grossly underpowered


According to the staff, this type of Voiceless Ones never attack singly, but in a pack. I think Tukufu will be hard pressed to hold them off by himself. Other types of Voiceless Ones are much more difficult to fight (i.e. higher CR)

Thank you for your thoughts, Eric.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Codex of the Mind
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:55 pm
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val Holryn wrote:
... Suromar is on topic ... but is it fair to make an elorii player get this val book to get access to it? I think it belongs somewhere else.


What better sourcebook should the psi-bane appear in than the book about Psionics?

The class (or Archetype) that is missing from the Elorii sourcebook (i.e. Sorcerous Pacts) is the Berotar. But I guess we'll see that if PCI ever releases a sourcebook about Seremas.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Codex of the Mind
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:04 am 
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Would love to see the Berotar. And I don't disagree with the thought that there isn't an abundance of other products coming out to potentially put the suromar into. Both would do well in a hypothetical elorii book ...

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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