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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:59 pm
Posts: 27
Please don't do this, the system is so restrictive already.
Who cares if people cherry pick level 5 bloodline powers.
If that is the only reason they took that Val'Bloodline, then they have to play for years before they get the benefit of it. Already, a Val can't take an Arcanum skill and a Combat skill at character creation (unless they use the Adaptable talent as their only non-bloodline talent) and they also do not get a defense bonus. The only reason to be a Val is the bloodline powers (and character concept) Otherwise the human is far better. IMHO :)
Pete Kost


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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1302
pmk_chance@yahoo.com wrote:
Please don't do this, the system is so restrictive already.
Who cares if people cherry pick level 5 bloodline powers.<snip>


From a story perspective it makes far more sense to have to have a minimum blood rank or number of powers before being able to use the most potent ones.

I would like to see a Path for those who wish to invest in their bloodline to be able to do so more fully.

[quote="pmk_chance@yahoo.com"]The only reason to be a Val is the bloodline powers (and character concept) Otherwise the human is far better. IMHO :)[/snip]

In my experience the number of val characters far outnumber the number of human characters in the campaign. That would seem to point to a decided mechanical advantage beyond just RP that vals already get.

If it's important to get to those higher bloodline powers, then they're an investment in both concept and build just like any other. It's a choice, but one that should help define who the character is.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:09 pm 
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Location: Central Alberta
pmk_chance@yahoo.com wrote:
Please don't do this, the system is so restrictive already.
Who cares if people cherry pick level 5 bloodline powers.


Flavour (building to your power)? Consistency (every other tier-like talents require prereqs of a lower level)?

Quote:
If that is the only reason they took that Val'Bloodline, then they have to play for years before they get the benefit of it.


What you seem to be saying here is that someone should be allowed to take a Tier V power at Tier I, even if they cannot gain access to it until Tier V (as per many other rules in the book). To me, this seems to be a far more infuriating way to play than having to take a minimum of one (usually quite decent) bloodline power/tier.

Quote:
Already, a Val can't take an Arcanum skill and a Combat skill at character creation (unless they use the Adaptable talent as their only non-bloodline talent) and they also do not get a defense bonus.


The ONLY race that can boost BOTH an Arcanum and a Combat skill at character creation (from race) is Human. It should also be noted that Vals gain boosts to THREE skills at character creation, while almost every race gets only 2, balancing somewhat the lack of a defence boost. Is it all equal? No, but the Vals get access to a LOT of special, unique talents so even that balances out somewhat more.

As Hat stated, there are more Vals in the campaign presently than I believe every other race combined. As such, I do not think that the majority of the player base agrees that the Vals are underpowered, at least to the extent that they are suboptimal player choices.

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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
PCIHenry wrote:
If the issue is that there aren't sufficient powers to choose from at Tier 3 or 4, I think we still have time to address that issue in the future.


I for one would love to see more bloodline powers. I'm not sure whether this is something that should be errataed, but one issue I've had is this: The T5 bloodline power for the val'Emman/Virdan requires a Ranged attack roll. In playing a Nierite monk of the Incandescent Flame (going back to 3.5 books), the order does not believe in ranged combat. In short, there is no reason in-game for why he would be putting ranks into Ranged combat when the order doesn't believe in it.

I know that it has been mentioned that blood ranks would become relevant at some point, perhaps this is a place where it could be done? Instead of saying that you need to make a Ranged attack roll, make the attack roll Charisma based, with a bonus equal to Bloodrank x2, x3, etc?

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aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Master of the Incandescent Flame (Martial 3.6)
aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.6)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1036
I still like the proposed system of requiring numbers of ranks of bloodline abilities (for example, iirc, for my val"Dellenov, I plan on both T1 and both T2 but the T3 makes no sense for my character concept but will be forced to take the T3 to be able to take the T4).

Since that proposal was turned down, I'm hoping they add more bloodline abilities to all val lines so that players will have a choice (lack of choice for T3+ is what I majorly dislike about the new system).

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Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:19 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:59 pm
Posts: 27
Not sure how you guys do this, (Snipping the text :) But, hear is what I said.
If that is the only reason they took that Val'Bloodline, then they have to play for years before they get the benefit of it.

Here is what Coby said
What you seem to be saying here is that someone should be allowed to take a Tier V power at Tier I

Nowhere did I say that you should be allowed to take a tier 5 talent at tier 1.
All I said was that if the only reason you wanted to be a Val was for their Tier 5 talent, then you would be playing that Val character for many many years before you became tier 5 and were able to choose that Bloodline power.


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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Location: Tampa, Florida (temp.)
wilcoxon wrote:
I'd be fine with that if there was more than a single T3 and T4 bloodline talent (eg no choice at all).

I agree with Steve. With each new ARPG book, I hope for a choice of new val bloodline talents, especially at Tiers III+. A ton of choices isn't necessary (although it might fit the results of the Blood War), but us old-timers were spoiled by the d20 Arcanis options of two or three bloodline powers per level.

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Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:30 pm 
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I can say fairly clearly that there are no plans that I have been informed of to produce additional bloodline talents for already detailed families. As it stands, all canon families have 7 Bloodline powers available (2 T1, 2 T2, 1 each T3, T4, T5).

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Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
I have two characters my val'Ishi and my val'Holryn (val'Emman) that have taken a fair number of bloodline powers as they have leveled up. While I would not mind some more choice at higher levels I'm happy with what's there. I only have so many talents I can chose per tier and with many of them Tiered they sort of eat up the available slots.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
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Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:59 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Nierite wrote:
...there are no plans that I have been informed of to produce additional bloodline talents for already detailed families.

See, this is why no one plays vals anymore. ;)

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aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.6)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


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