Paradigm Concepts
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/

Val Bloodline talent errata
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=970		 Page 3 of 6
Author:  Nierite [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
I still don't like this, and I prefer that you have to have at least one Bloodline talent per tier up to where you want to be. This just smacks of "but I don't want to get lemons" for talents when sometimes that is what you have to do in a game. I don't like the Tier I Counterspell, but I'll take it if it means I can get to the Tier V version! That said, that is my opinion.
Author:  wilcoxon [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
where we are now

Quote:
Page: 213 to 229 (Errata)
All Bloodline Talents: In order to learn a Bloodline power, you must already know a bloodline power one tier lower or a number of bloodline powers whose total tiers equal the Tier of the new Bloodline Powers.


Thank you. I really like this. It adds requirements (no more cherry picking) but also gives options.

At a minimum, you'll need:
T2: T1
T3: T2
T4: T3 or T1+T1+T2 (or T1+T2+T2)
T5: T4 or T1+T2+T2 (this is the only one where it seems like the count tiers may be lowish but it's still far more restrictive than now)
Author:  wilcoxon [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
Nierite wrote:
I still don't like this, and I prefer that you have to have at least one Bloodline talent per tier up to where you want to be. This just smacks of "but I don't want to get lemons" for talents when sometimes that is what you have to do in a game. I don't like the Tier I Counterspell, but I'll take it if it means I can get to the Tier V version! That said, that is my opinion.


I'd be fine with that if there was more than a single T3 and T4 bloodline talent (eg no choice at all). Without adding another T3 and T4 bloodline talent per family, I strongly favor the new errata version (a lot more restrictive than now but offers options).

At least for me, it's not about lemons, it's about how I see my character (for instance, the T5 val'Dellenov bloodline is really nice but I likely won't take it because it's not how I see my char) and avoiding cookie-cutter bloodlines (you'd end up with every T5 val having at least 2, likely 3, and possibly 4 talents the same as any other val from the same family).
Author:  Nierite [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
For me, lemons add character. If you get to pick and choose to your hearts content, I feel like I'm playing Gestalt D&D rules. Val's do NOT need more advantages in this game (coming from someone who plays a Val).
Author:  wilcoxon [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
Nierite wrote:
For me, lemons add character. If you get to pick and choose to your hearts content, I feel like I'm playing Gestalt D&D rules. Val's do NOT need more advantages in this game (coming from someone who plays a Val).


More advantages? Right now, you are free to pick any/all bloodline talents you want (only want the T4 bloodline, that's fine (just wait until you are T4)). Any of the various versions of this errata are far more restrictive than the current rules.

I'm not necessarily opposed to lemons - I'm just opposed to lemons without choices. On some of my characters, I've intentionally done things in a sub-optimal way because that's how I see the character (not because I was forced). If I choose a talent for flavor, I want it to be my choice (I hate "if you want X, you must take Y" unless there's a very good reason).

Even as written, I don't see vals as broken (yes, they are often a good choice but so are some other races (any race can be optimal depending on the build you want)). I certainly wouldn't want to see them given more power but this adds restrictions on them.
Author:  DeadZone [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
Harliquinn wrote:
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
that's nothing new, spanning back to the d20 days...

sometimes to get to the uber stuff, you have to take the "not so uber" stuff

<que's lady gaga's song "born this way>

I think this is a poor way to balance things. Requiring you take stuff you don't want, won't use and which doesn't fit with your character is heavy handed. It only results in all characters of a val bloodline being identical.
Not identical, but very similar. And... Isn't that perfectly reflective of the story? All val of a given bloodline manifest the same powers (with some minimal variation.) That's what makes them val of the same bloodline. Additionally, only the most powerful val (those with the strongest bloodlines) can manifest the most powerful abilities. Sounds like a story/rules match to me.

Argument #2... How many people have you heard talk about, "val'Broken"? People are complaining that vals are the most powerful race more often than not. They don't need the ability to skip bloodline powers that are not optimal for their characters. At least, not any more than they already have. All they have to do is pick one of two for most tiers. For the tiers that only have one... Well, the ability may not be optimal for your character, but it's not exactly worthless, now is it?
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
where we are now
Quote:
Page: 213 to 229 (Errata)
All Bloodline Talents: In order to learn a Bloodline power, you must already know a bloodline power one tier lower or a number of bloodline powers whose total tiers equal the Tier of the new Bloodline Powers.
I'm not a fan. In most cases it's mathematically equivalent to allowing you to skip all the bloodline abilities that you don't like. At tiers 1-3, you take only your favorite bloodline talent and you can skip the tier 4 talent to get the tier 5. Or take a T1 and both T2 and you can skip the T3 and T4 talents to get the T5. I'm not a fan.

Scott
Author:  frzntundra4 [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
I concur with Scott.
Author:  Nierite [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
x3
Author:  Elyse val'Tensen [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
I also agree that in this, for story purposes, you should have to have one tier previous bloodline power. This isn't an action or a spell - this is how the divine manifests within you.
Author:  SamhainIA [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
I also agree with Scott (and company)
Page 3 of 6 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/