Last visit was: It is currently Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:10 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:08 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2470
Location: Central Alberta
I still don't like this, and I prefer that you have to have at least one Bloodline talent per tier up to where you want to be. This just smacks of "but I don't want to get lemons" for talents when sometimes that is what you have to do in a game. I don't like the Tier I Counterspell, but I'll take it if it means I can get to the Tier V version! That said, that is my opinion.

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
where we are now

Quote:
Page: 213 to 229 (Errata)
All Bloodline Talents: In order to learn a Bloodline power, you must already know a bloodline power one tier lower or a number of bloodline powers whose total tiers equal the Tier of the new Bloodline Powers.


Thank you. I really like this. It adds requirements (no more cherry picking) but also gives options.

At a minimum, you'll need:
T2: T1
T3: T2
T4: T3 or T1+T1+T2 (or T1+T2+T2)
T5: T4 or T1+T2+T2 (this is the only one where it seems like the count tiers may be lowish but it's still far more restrictive than now)

_________________
Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
Nierite wrote:
I still don't like this, and I prefer that you have to have at least one Bloodline talent per tier up to where you want to be. This just smacks of "but I don't want to get lemons" for talents when sometimes that is what you have to do in a game. I don't like the Tier I Counterspell, but I'll take it if it means I can get to the Tier V version! That said, that is my opinion.


I'd be fine with that if there was more than a single T3 and T4 bloodline talent (eg no choice at all). Without adding another T3 and T4 bloodline talent per family, I strongly favor the new errata version (a lot more restrictive than now but offers options).

At least for me, it's not about lemons, it's about how I see my character (for instance, the T5 val'Dellenov bloodline is really nice but I likely won't take it because it's not how I see my char) and avoiding cookie-cutter bloodlines (you'd end up with every T5 val having at least 2, likely 3, and possibly 4 talents the same as any other val from the same family).

_________________
Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:29 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2470
Location: Central Alberta
For me, lemons add character. If you get to pick and choose to your hearts content, I feel like I'm playing Gestalt D&D rules. Val's do NOT need more advantages in this game (coming from someone who plays a Val).

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
Nierite wrote:
For me, lemons add character. If you get to pick and choose to your hearts content, I feel like I'm playing Gestalt D&D rules. Val's do NOT need more advantages in this game (coming from someone who plays a Val).


More advantages? Right now, you are free to pick any/all bloodline talents you want (only want the T4 bloodline, that's fine (just wait until you are T4)). Any of the various versions of this errata are far more restrictive than the current rules.

I'm not necessarily opposed to lemons - I'm just opposed to lemons without choices. On some of my characters, I've intentionally done things in a sub-optimal way because that's how I see the character (not because I was forced). If I choose a talent for flavor, I want it to be my choice (I hate "if you want X, you must take Y" unless there's a very good reason).

Even as written, I don't see vals as broken (yes, they are often a good choice but so are some other races (any race can be optimal depending on the build you want)). I certainly wouldn't want to see them given more power but this adds restrictions on them.

_________________
Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:30 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:01 am
Posts: 327
Harliquinn wrote:
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
that's nothing new, spanning back to the d20 days...

sometimes to get to the uber stuff, you have to take the "not so uber" stuff

<que's lady gaga's song "born this way>

I think this is a poor way to balance things. Requiring you take stuff you don't want, won't use and which doesn't fit with your character is heavy handed. It only results in all characters of a val bloodline being identical.
Not identical, but very similar. And... Isn't that perfectly reflective of the story? All val of a given bloodline manifest the same powers (with some minimal variation.) That's what makes them val of the same bloodline. Additionally, only the most powerful val (those with the strongest bloodlines) can manifest the most powerful abilities. Sounds like a story/rules match to me.

Argument #2... How many people have you heard talk about, "val'Broken"? People are complaining that vals are the most powerful race more often than not. They don't need the ability to skip bloodline powers that are not optimal for their characters. At least, not any more than they already have. All they have to do is pick one of two for most tiers. For the tiers that only have one... Well, the ability may not be optimal for your character, but it's not exactly worthless, now is it?
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
where we are now
Quote:
Page: 213 to 229 (Errata)
All Bloodline Talents: In order to learn a Bloodline power, you must already know a bloodline power one tier lower or a number of bloodline powers whose total tiers equal the Tier of the new Bloodline Powers.
I'm not a fan. In most cases it's mathematically equivalent to allowing you to skip all the bloodline abilities that you don't like. At tiers 1-3, you take only your favorite bloodline talent and you can skip the tier 4 talent to get the tier 5. Or take a T1 and both T2 and you can skip the T3 and T4 talents to get the T5. I'm not a fan.

Scott


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:10 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:14 am
Posts: 115
I concur with Scott.

_________________
Rick Brill
~ Decios Canius val'Dellenov of Balantica, Spear Merchant
Grand Master of the Lancea T3.1

and
~ Sestia Gracchi, of Grand Coryan


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:13 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2470
Location: Central Alberta
x3

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:12 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Superior, WI
I also agree that in this, for story purposes, you should have to have one tier previous bloodline power. This isn't an action or a spell - this is how the divine manifests within you.

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toni Brill

Elyse val'Tensen, Royal Marine of Milandir and Knight Protector of Tanin 3.1
and
Ryzxeien 1.6


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Val Bloodline talent errata
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
I also agree with Scott (and company)

_________________
--Josh Elliott
Oswald val'Inares V, The Seeker of the Val'Inares
Harvester Lord of the Eastern Fields of Iowa


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric, PCI_StatMonkey Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki