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learn martial tech change
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=962		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  whitepanther0712 [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  learn martial tech change
i don't think there should be this requirement, for many reasons. this may force pcs to have to take abilities that they would not normally do. as well as not being able to take a certain lvl at all. look at the tier 3 and 4 abilities. if i were a crossbow, flintlock or thrower user there is no way what so ever that i could ever take tier 4 abilities, since any ranged abilities in tier 3 pertain only to bows. it also seems to me that few if any abilities actually build off of an ability from a tier one lvl lower
Author:  PCI_StatMonkey [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
whitepanther0712 wrote:
i don't think there should be this requirement, for many reasons. this may force pcs to have to take abilities that they would not normally do. as well as not being able to take a certain lvl at all. look at the tier 3 and 4 abilities. if i were a crossbow, flintlock or thrower user there is no way what so ever that i could ever take tier 4 abilities, since any ranged abilities in tier 3 pertain only to bows. it also seems to me that few if any abilities actually build off of an ability from a tier one lvl lower


This change is being propose to limit "cherry picking" and was something we always intend...

which is why many of the maneuvers only have skill requirements, instead of requiring other maneuvers (which was part of the original design and thought of as too heavy handed)

it also helps balance Martial characters against Expert characters...
Author:  whitepanther0712 [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
i can understand the desire to balance, thats fine. but what about the inability for certain pcs to now gain access to higher lvls.... while i know its premature at this point since no pc is lvl 3 let alone 4, as the rule stands flintlocks, crossbows and thrown only weapons cant progress beyond tier 3 abilities. if the requirements remain as currently proposed i would recommend keeping in mind for future product release that LMT tier 3 needs abilities that are usable by the aforementioned PC types
Author:  Hat [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
whitepanther0712 wrote:
i don't think there should be this requirement, for many reasons. this may force pcs to have to take abilities that they would not normally do. as well as not being able to take a certain lvl at all. look at the tier 3 and 4 abilities. if i were a crossbow, flintlock or thrower user there is no way what so ever that i could ever take tier 4 abilities, since any ranged abilities in tier 3 pertain only to bows.


Martial Archetype characters are already at a mechanical disadvantage compared to casters and Experts. Martial Techniques were what was supposed to help set them apart from the rest. The principle of building off of previous tiers applies everywhere *except* Martial Techniques. Why should this be the exception? Bloodline abilities, spellcasting, tiered talents etc. all require the lower levels to proceed.

Users of crossbows, flintlocks and thrown weapons from the ranged table would need to take Blinding Strike at the moment. I agree this is fairly limited and argues for additional Martial Techniques in the next few supplements to round out that gap. Flintlocks are reinforced for use as melee weapons as well, so there's more flexibility in what could be taken, but from a usefulness standpoint, blinding shot is it for the moment.

whitepanther0712 wrote:
it also seems to me that few if any abilities actually build off of an ability from a tier one lvl lower


The same could be said for much of the spells and bloodline abilities as well. In the case of Martial Techniques you're developing greater skill and ability to pull off difficult maneuvers. The higher level abilities simply reflect that need for mastering the nuances of combat.

Respectfully and with a sweep of his hat,

Paul
Author:  Hat [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
whitepanther0712 wrote:
i can understand the desire to balance, thats fine. but what about the inability for certain pcs to now gain access to higher lvls.... while i know its premature at this point since no pc is lvl 3 let alone 4, as the rule stands flintlocks, crossbows and thrown only weapons cant progress beyond tier 3 abilities. if the requirements remain as currently proposed i would recommend keeping in mind for future product release that LMT tier 3 needs abilities that are usable by the aforementioned PC types


As I noted in my original response, I agree with your request to add new LMTs for those types of weapons. Any character investing in the LMT chain should have at least one reasonable way to get to the top, preferably several.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul
Author:  PCI_StatMonkey [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
whitepanther0712 wrote:
i can understand the desire to balance, thats fine. but what about the inability for certain pcs to now gain access to higher lvls.... while i know its premature at this point since no pc is lvl 3 let alone 4, as the rule stands flintlocks, crossbows and thrown only weapons cant progress beyond tier 3 abilities. if the requirements remain as currently proposed i would recommend keeping in mind for future product release that LMT tier 3 needs abilities that are usable by the aforementioned PC types


you can also feel free to suggest maneuver ideas :)

http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=904
Author:  PCI_StatMonkey [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
Hat wrote:
As I noted in my original response, I agree with your request to add new LMTs for those types of weapons. Any character investing in the LMT chain should have at least one reasonable way to get to the top, preferably several.


I would also suggest you don't fall into the one trick pony trap..

my holy champion of Cadic for example is a dagger fighter, but he is damn good with a bow
Author:  Hat [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
Hat wrote:
As I noted in my original response, I agree with your request to add new LMTs for those types of weapons. Any character investing in the LMT chain should have at least one reasonable way to get to the top, preferably several.


I would also suggest you don't fall into the one trick pony trap..

my holy champion of Cadic for example is a dagger fighter, but he is damn good with a bow


Agreed. It requires maxing out 2 skills to a casters 1 skill and potentially maintaining 2 sets of Weapon Mastery progressions.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul
Author:  Deviknyte [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
I would also suggest you don't fall into the one trick pony trap..

my holy champion of Cadic for example is a dagger fighter, but he is damn good with a bow
It's hard to be proficient with more than one type of fighting if you aren't martial. Sure my expert Cadician Bowman could take a dagger trick at tier 3, but he doesn't have any tier 1 or 2 maneuvers to back them up. He also might not have descent ranks in melee (balanced), thus making that maneuver useless.
Author:  val Holryn [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: learn martial tech change
::wince:: Ooohhh. This is not so good for Tukufu. Who is indeed an Expert.

But I think this is a good idea overall even if I have to tweak him or abandon Tukufu's plans to be an Altherian Trigger Mage in his last three paths...
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