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 Post subject: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
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Location: Portland OR
There is a potential mechanical issue that has been raised with the Bonded Mastiff.

You get the Hound at Tier 2 which prevent you from the full set of Loyal Companion advancements. This is especially probabmatic mechanically becuse Loyal Companion does not (for some reason) advance your animal evenly through tiers.

In the Tier I (the first time you take this talent) you get your animal. The Tier 2 version gives a (paltry) +1 to attacks and defenses. Tier 5 gives a (whopping) +4 to attacks and defenses...but as a Phoenix Knight you get your animal (Tier 1) at Tier 2. So you can't get to Tier 5 in Loyal companion (unless you find a loophole and take the path Master of the Hounds).

You are better off for attacks and defenses to run a normal dog up through Tier 5.

A proposed solution is that a canine companion can be taken in Tier 1 and advanced to the superior stats of the Bonded Mastiff in Tier 2 when the PC becomes a full Phoenix Knight.

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Eric Gorman

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:51 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Hello Eric,

I don't see an issue with this.

While you're correct that running a normal dog through the Loyal Companion will eventually grant it a more potent attack, it will never have the special abilities that come with the Hound.

Its a matter of choices and trade offs.

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 Post subject: Re: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
I think we went over this once but the class its self has the solution in it, its just that that solution is limited to Grandmasters(aka NPCs).

other options for completeness, are taking the val'Dellnov Talent "We are all her children", Taking HC of Saluwe or the 2nd Tier of Master of the Hounds, its not impossible its just difficult to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Location: Portland OR
Noted & okay. Yes, certainly the Hound has a number of cool abilities and benefits.

This point was indeed raised before. I don't think the discussion ever reached a conclusion. At least i don't remember one. But it's clear now.

Thanks!

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:59 pm
Posts: 27
Being the only Knight of the order of the Phoenix (That I know of :)
I asked this question before.
After many posts I was told that you can get a talent twice in one tier, once as a talent then once in the path. In this case you just take the Path first and then the loyal companion talent.
Sir Baldric Val'Holryn
Pete Kost


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 Post subject: Re: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Cajun Country
pmk_chance@yahoo.com wrote:
Being the only Knight of the order of the Phoenix (That I know of :)
I asked this question before.
After many posts I was told that you can get a talent twice in one tier, once as a talent then once in the path. In this case you just take the Path first and then the loyal companion talent.
Sir Baldric Val'Holryn
Pete Kost

I do recall this being the general rule for talents. Being that you can gain a talent a second time in the same tier, but only if that second time was from a path that gives you that talent explicitly.

However with the way this particular example plays out you still won't get it maxed out. In this case you get your companion talent in tier 2. You can then take loyal companion each tier after, for a total of 4 times. You can't take it before you become a knight as you don't own your hound yet. You would hit all 5 tiers if you take the Grandmaster level of the path, but your character also basically becomes an NPC.


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 Post subject: Re: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:34 pm 
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As Josh has noted there are a handful of ways to get Loyal Compaion one more time through two paths and/or a bloodline talent. And the Hound is cool just as a resurrection policy or something that assists your attacks.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Order of the Phoenix: Hound
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:33 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Unless I am missing something, you are talking about the Mastiff being (literally) 1 point less in skills and defenses. To take 5 tiers of Loysl Companion, you need a T1 Common critter. The Mastiff starts at T2 (with all the appropriate bumps to stats). It ends at +14 to attack. A T1 puppy dog starts at +3 and would gain an additional +12 in the 5 tiers of Loyal Companion. Personally, like Henry said, all that extra goodness of the Mastiff is worth it, imho.

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