And it was my intent Henry, to question it in terms of this context and to compare/challenge the way that the Weapon Trick "Throw the Blade" works in another with it being a "Thrown Weapon", and with this ruling it for all intents and purposes makes it a weapon trick I will likely never use again. I can understand your previous statement about disliking the idea of an Air Rune not being used on any weapon, but without it being available it makes (in my opinion) Throw the Blade weaker and imbalanced compared to other weapon tricks. Perhaps my question/inquiry was driven more by the fact that Throw the Blade operates as such:

1) The broadsword, gladius, and shortsword all gain this trick via placing skill ranks in Melee (Balanced).

2) In order to even use the weapon trick and have it be possibly effective, you are required to use Ranged (Thrown) to make the attack while using the weapon, as even though you gain access to the trick via ranks in Melee (Balanced), you are required to make this maneuver using a different skill. Checking the core book and Codex of Heroes, only Throw the Blade and Shield Throw have weapon tricks earned for weapons that require the trick be performed with a different skill than the one that granted it in the first place, which seems counter in my mind. [Hence my statements on the weapons becoming 'thrown' with the use of the maneuver, and was ruled as such previously on the old boards.]

3) This weapon trick asks the user to disarm himself to use it - with the Air Rune on the blade, and using a rune slot (a limited resource) to allow it to return, was the only way I could see a character wanting to use this maneuver, as this trick is not about throwing daggers, handaxes, or other smaller weapons you may carry multiple of - this effectively disarms the user and places him at a disadvantage in combat (for, in my opinion, weak benefits compared to other weapon tricks).

Last night, I was thinking that this weapon trick existed to allow smaller weapons and such to be thrown [such as daggers, handaxes, etc] for more damage, and when I reviewed the weapon tricks this morning, I was surprised when the only three weapons it existed for were larger melee weapons. Being melee, I find if odd that one of the tricks with my weapon I'd learn throw experience (skill ranks) is throwing my weapon at someone and leaving myself disarmed... and I don't believe carrying a bandoleer of large swords to throw them makes much sense either. And as per Pedro's earlier post, the idea of tossing a sword of high quality and runes at someone, having it lie on the ground and possibly be stolen, is all that great of an idea. Using the Air Rune to throw the blade 10' and ensure it returned to me was acceptable in my mind - with this change, I do not see me using this trick ever again, and perhaps with the clarification to the Air Rune, it opened up my old beef with Throw the Blade. I was willing to invest to make it some I could utilize by using an Air Rune with this maneuver, but I feel it is no longer viable now in any way. Throw the Blade may have some cool factor or cinematic value, but logic-wise it seems a poor combat judgment decision and mechanics-wise it is a underpowered trick with multiple negatives.

So, I'll admit I was guilty as charged, and its was more to try and illuminate my displeasure and opinion of Throw the Blade perhaps than the clarification to the Air Rune - together, they made Throw the Blade usable, and without its not. It just feels that 'Thrown' was being used in two ways to adjudicate the use of the weapon trick, depending on circumstances. That's my two cents.

I would agree that Throw the Blade seems to be one of the less useful weapon tricks (I don't think I've ever seen it used).

From my perspective, most weapon tricks are going to be situational. I can't recall a time when I've been at a table that's used Rapid Strike, Crushing Blow, Pin Them Down, Pommel Strike or Hamstring. Their good in the right circumstances though. Different tricks at different tiers are going to be easier to apply more frequently. They were selected because they fit with the flavor of the weapon and are a side benefit for having weapon training and 3 ranks/tier in the appropriate skill.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I've only seen it used with the Air Rune.

In the home game I ran I had a one of my players that would always start his fight with Spear/Shield.. throw the Spear at some minion, draw the gladius, fight to the spear, throw the blade, pick up the spear, and keep fighting.

If you are a "I focus on only the Gladius" ya I never see you doing it..

but it's a good way to get rid of a weapon before you draw another.

Not all Weapon Tricks are made equal, I realize, but your examples are some useful ones:

* Rapid Strike: Reduce speed of a weapon or advanced maneuver by -1, for -3 damage? Trade off may be worth it.

* Crushing Blow: +2 speed hurts, but there is nothing bad with pushing an enemy's clock by 2 ticks.

* Pin Them Down: For +2 speed and using your weapon to pin them, you drop a foe's pace to 0, -2 Avoidance, -2 to All Action Skill Rolls, and a Demanding Action (Spd 7) from them or their foe to remove it? Pretty damn nice, honestly.

* Pommel Strike: I was down originally on this trick, until encountering certain murders. Bludgeoning damage good against creatures that have crazy DR against slashing or piercing...

* Hamstring: Pace reduction is not all bad - situational yes, but useful to halt or slow fleeing opponents.

As for weapon tricks being used only in certain situations, there are some used almost constantly, such as Mighty Swing, Point Blank Shot, and Shield Slam. They may be a side benefit, but there is a decent range of effectiveness and usefulness, in my opinion.

I can see it working in that instance, perhaps, if you are have those weapons and circumstances Pedro - it fits a legionnaire or gladiator-type fighter (though he must have slowed down picking up those weapons - can't recall if there is a talent or ability to pick up objects as a trivial action, and without free strikes). And I'll admit I am focused on a single weapon, being a holy warrior build, but that's the flavor of the character I built, and what the background/paths direct me towards using. Flavor and mechanics wise, I'm still not sold, in this instance for my character.

As for being a good way to get rid of a weapon before drawing another, perhaps, but your statement about someone running off with a shiny, expensive weapon still stands....

Agreed. Like you I think that Throw the Blade may be a bit out of line with the other tricks. If that's the case though, I'd rather fix the trick that affects multiple weapons though. It shouldn't require magic to make the trick useful.

The gladius is a good weapon even without it. Being quick gives the benefit of being able to focus on 2 stats for speed, accuracy and damage rather than 3. Versatile gives you a similar benefit when facing specific opponents. One of the things I like about the dagger is that with pommel strike it can get around any damage reduction benefit due to the type of attack.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Oh, definitely, gladius is definitely a good weapon - broadsword, on the other had, starts with Throw the Blade, Pommel Strike, and then Hamstring as it's first three tricks - Tier IV finally gives it Mighty Swing. It's quality is cool, but I constantly forget about it on the rare occasions I critical with it, and even then it only comes into play when an opponent has more than 1 wound.

If you've got proficiency and enough ranks with another weapon that has mighty swing at tier 1, you could pick up the Adapt Weapon Talent and not wait until Tier IV for Mighty Swing. Just a thought.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul