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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
Maybe it's just me but I still massively disagree with making T1+T1 pretty much unusable until late T1 (and T1+T1+adaptation pretty much unusable until T2). Advanced spells are one of the most interesting aspects of Arcanis magic and should be possible at 1.1 (certainly not auto-cast but reasonably possible). Highest+6 and sum-12 both make T1+T1 around CTN 24 (unusable until late T1).

A friend just made a suggestion I'd be fine with. If we go with a high CTN, what about a Fate use option that is better than the generic +Fate to a roll only for advanced spells?

Personally, I really like most of the other changes made in the proposed errata. I'm unsure if I like making advanced spells faster (eg highest+half vs highest speed) but I like the defense changes, range changes (we definitely need this imho), and effect changes.

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Last edited by wilcoxon on Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
if your argument is:

"I think this should be available at 1.1 at a reasonable cast rate" i think you are the only one that feels that way

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:16 pm 
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I think many people feel that way, actually. That said, I strongly disagree. Yes, it should be POSSIBLE to make an advanced spell at Tier 1.1, but I really do think that it advanced spells should come into the game in the later-half of the appropriate spell tier (kind of an advancement of the tier you are in while you work into the next tier). Maybe that is just me, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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I'm not saying auto-cast. I'm saying around CTN 21 with no adaptations which means around CTN 24 for 1 adaptation (won't auto-cast until well into T2).

I still strongly feel that we should not be massively limiting advanced spell availability (which CTN 24 does). If advanced spells need more limits, expand on those (like slowing them down again (eg original speed rule instead of new proposed rule)) rather than making them unusable. Advanced spells are the most interesting and unique part of the Arcanis magic system.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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If we go with either CTN+6 or sum-12, I expect to see fewer arcane casters and way fewer advanced spells used (but maybe that's just me).

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:47 pm 
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Location: Chicago Suburbs
wilcoxon wrote:
Maybe it's just me but I still massively disagree with making T1+T1 pretty much unusable until late T1 (and T1+T1+adaptation pretty much unusable until T2). Advanced spells are one of the most interesting aspects of Arcanis magic and should be possible at 1.1 (certainly not auto-cast but reasonably possible). Highest+6 and sum-12 both make T1+T1 around CTN 24 (unusable until late T1).


Actually, there are 2 proposals on the table. The first being CTN + CTN -12. The second is to change Metaphysical? Understanding to reduce the CTN total of an advanced spell by 2. This puts the CTN at 22 for T1, a totally doable passive CTN early in Tier 1.

That being said, characters starting now (at 1.5) can start casting Advanced Spells with their passive on the first game. Will dabblers be able to do it? No, but then for Advanced spells, they shouldn't be able to. Advanced spells are for advanced casters who focus on theory and proctice of magic.

This makes if available to all who want it, but real hard if you don't work for it, which seems to be the goal. Achievable but still special.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:52 pm 

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CTN 22 is reasonable but I'm not big on requiring a talent to do it (primarily because that means I'll have to rebuild my character (at least it's only my tertiary that I've only played a few times)).

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Any change to Advanced Spells is going to require someone to rebuild a character concept. The current situation has to change with the amount of auto-cast advanced spells being used compared to adapted spells.

CTN+6 and the MetaPhysical Understanding change is a workable long-term compromise.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Location: Miami Florida
guys,

out of the box casters should NOT be able to cast advanced spells willy nilly...

it should be something you work toward.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spells (one topic)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Even CTN 21 means no starting caster can auto-cast or cast willy-nilly (if my off-the-cuff math is right, 4 ranks Arcanum and Prodigy would have <50% chance to hit a 21). CTN 22 delays that a little longer (and requires 2 talents to get asap). CTN 22 can auto-cast by late T1 whereas 24 isn't until mid-T2. As I've said, to me, the real utility (and interesting part) of Advanced Spells is adding adaptations which pushes the CTN up to ~25 for T1+T1+adapt (given base CTN 22).

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