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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:26 am 
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
Davebauder wrote:
OK, how about this. A different sidebar later in the doc saying something like...

Buffing Magic. Generally speaking, if a character could cast a spell with a scene duration with their passive casting, the characters should (of shouldn't - I again don't care so much about the ruling, just the clarity) be allowed to have those spells active.

Just a thought. Not a ruling, just a guide. Like the scene guide.


I may have to create the "Wasting Disease" in the chroniclers guide to drive this home so Choniclers can smack players with it if they go through, lets say 3, adventures with spells up all the time.

Sometimes I start to think you need a "rules sledge hammer" to drive a point home when it should be something in character.


FWIW part of the disconnect imo is that PC's live and die in seconds -and choose appropriately.
It's like Smoking, if cigarettes gave a Mettle buff. Sure you'll get cancer/emphysema and die a slow, wasting death -but if you blow your Mettle roll right now, you're dead today.
As for IC woes, I recall in LA having 20 Ranks in Knowledge: Religion and still not knowing anything about Belisarda's tenets and rituals. :lol:
That's just how it is sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:03 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Michigan
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
that opens up an entire can-o-worms of someone having several buff spells up all the time, even to the point where someone may argue they walk into every scene "spelled up" and ready to go.

walking around with spells active makes you a target for harvesters and heretics..

also there is a STRONG story reason why you would not have spells up all the time.. it slowly kills the caster.. read page 341 the side bar.

I may have to create the "Wasting Disease" in the chroniclers guide to drive this home so Choniclers can smack players with it if they go through, lets say 3, adventures with spells up all the time.

Sometimes I start to think you need a "rules sledge hammer" to drive a point home when it should be something in character.


See, I got this impression from an earlier discussion on spells we had, but in the rules book... nothing. from the rules I thought the wasting disease and harvesters only applied to sorcerers, not any other casters.

It sounded like other arcane casters might be scooped up by harvesters if they happen to show up after a sorcerer, but they aren't generally targeted in their own right. What little I've seen the shaman organization in the hinterlands doesn't seem to have any fear of harvesters, nor do the psionic trainers of the various val houses, etc. If these are real concerns for non-sorcerer casters, I think a side-bar indicating that would be very helpful. Heck, I assumed the "path of" spells were to some degree the replacement of the wild shape of old for druids, so I thought it might have the same form of duration (scene could be days out in the woods, or the entire trip from city to city). Imagine my surprise when I learned that scenes were really meant to only be minutes rather than sometimes hours. Especially since you can’t recast these spells while in them, so you have to convert back and then recast, which could have nasty consequences… And then to learn that being in your wolf form might attract harvesters and give you the wasting disease? That is a shock.

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:55 pm
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Location: Chicago Suburbs
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
that opens up an entire can-o-worms of someone having several buff spells up all the time, even to the point where someone may argue they walk into every scene "spelled up" and ready to go.


Just to let you know, Pedro, this is not hypothetical. People not only argue that they walk into every scene "spelled up" and ready to go, but there are many judges rignt now that allow it. Nothing in the rules that say not to. That is why I am pushing so hard for some guidance. Not even a rule, just a sidebar like I suggested with your words. And maybe some consequences. Because this is happening all the time. You may not see it, but it is there, and if that's not how it's supposed to be, the current rules don't make it clear, so a bit of a clarification would be REAL helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
And I'm right there next to Dave, because i don't like arguing with those people when i say , no your spells aren't up

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:37 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
And I'm right there next to Dave, because i don't like arguing with those people when i say , no your spells aren't up


Expect a little side bar in the magic section of the FAQ part of the doc.

I should be posting an updated document tonight

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:46 pm 
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Quote:
A note on spells with "Scene" duration

With the notable exceptions of Binding Spells and Spells with time based duration (ex. hours), heroes never start a Scene with active Scene duration Spells.

These spells are meant to be cast in the midst of the Scene and often carry a speed/strain cost in
relation of their utility.

There are times where the heroes (or villains) have a chance to cast spells before an event begins, in such cases heroes should be limited to a single casting

attempt with failure still resulting in a successful cast as if they had rolled their passive Arcanum value +5 (to simulate being Focused on the Task at Hand)

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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you had me untill the last line

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:00 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
you had me untill the last line


why?
It's to simulate someone casting over and over and over and settling at the most common result.

in other words you have one shot to get what you want, fail, and you get your passive +a bonus (instead of saying, calculate the bonus from all your talents and special abilities and items and so on)

Now it can be argued that the bonus is too good....

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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or they can try and fail, and beforeced to suffer the actions of ther choices, where they could have just cast it with their passive if they wanted a sure thing?

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 Post subject: Re: What is a scene.. 1st draft
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:11 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
or they can try and fail, and be forced to suffer the actions of their choices, where they could have just cast it with their passive if they wanted a sure thing?


then you end up with "we have time? I cast and cast and cast again until I get the result I want"

I'm willing to say just flat passive mind you... the +5 was me being (maybe a little too) nice

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