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Weapon Training: Shield
https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1040		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Harliquinn [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Weapon Training: Shield
How does:

Quote:
Q: Is the martial archetype the only archetype that doesn’t need to spend a talent to learn to use any shield?
A: No, Martial archetype characters learn all of their nation’s shields during character creation. Expert archetype may also learn to use shields from their "any one other weapon of choice" selection.


Interact with:

Quote:
Q: Does armor training cover the use of a shield as a weapon? Does Weapon training cover its use as armor?
A: Armor Proficiency: Shields in addition to its benefits grants Weapon Training: Shield. Weapon Training: Shield in addition to its benefits grants Armor Prof: Shields.


So an Expert can learn Weapon Training: Shield because it's a weapon? However, when choosing National Weapons, does shield not count? Just asking for clarification for me personally not that anything needs to go into the errata unless it's different.

John
Author:  archangel [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
This actually has a bit more implication than you think. If a shield is a national weapon then martial archetypes end up with weapon mastery 1 with it automatically, getting both weapon and armor prof and each of those granting the other.
Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
@archangel yah no

@ John ... opps my bad your right, I thought expert said light national weapon
Author:  archangel [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
SamhainIA wrote:
@archangel yah no

@ John ... opps my bad your right, I thought expert said light national weapon

I didn't say that was intentional but it is the way it would be seen with the errata saying Armor training gives you weapon training and vice versa. And we all know by now that if you have weapon training and get it again it becomes weapon mastery. At this point I'd prefer the two talents get merged into one called Shield training to avoid just these kinds of issues.
Author:  wilcoxon [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
I seriously don't see anyone arguing for this (without trying to be intentionally obtuse to abuse the rules). On the other hand, I have been arguing for being as explicit as possible on the new rules so it probably is worth making this explicit in some way.
Author:  PCI_StatMonkey [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
wilcoxon wrote:
I seriously don't see anyone arguing for this (without trying to be intentionally obtuse to abuse the rules). On the other hand, I have been arguing for being as explicit as possible on the new rules so it probably is worth making this explicit in some way.


I do intend to tackle the "Shield Issue" but it's going to be a bot more involved then a little bit of errata.

for now... martial characters do not start with weapon focus in all shields as you can not take weapon training in shields, the only way to learn shield use is though Armor Proficiency: Shields.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
wilcoxon wrote:
I seriously don't see anyone arguing for this (without trying to be intentionally obtuse to abuse the rules). On the other hand, I have been arguing for being as explicit as possible on the new rules so it probably is worth making this explicit in some way.


I do intend to tackle the "Shield Issue" but it's going to be a bot more involved then a little bit of errata.

for now... martial characters do not start with weapon focus in all shields as you can not take weapon training in shields, the only way to learn shield use is though Armor Proficiency: Shields.


If this is changing back to not work off Weapon Training (Shield), you need to adjust this:

Quote:
Q: Is the martial archetype the only archetype that doesn’t need to spend a talent to learn to use any shield?
A: No, Martial archetype characters learn all of their nation’s shields during character creation. Expert archetype may also learn to use shields from their "any one other weapon of choice" selection.


John
Author:  PCI_StatMonkey [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
archangel wrote:
This actually has a bit more implication than you think. If a shield is a national weapon then martial archetypes end up with weapon mastery 1 with it automatically, getting both weapon and armor prof and each of those granting the other.


Which is why I made the changes I did

read what I did with weapon training
Author:  Harliquinn [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
This is what's currently in the errata:

Quote:
Q: Does armor training cover the use of a shield as a weapon? Does Weapon training cover its use as armor?
A: Armor Proficiency: Shields in addition to its benefits grants Weapon Training: Shield. Weapon Training: Shield in addition to its benefits grants Armor Prof: Shields.

Q: If an Archetype, Background, or Path grants me Weapon Training (Any) or Weapon Training (Any National) may I chose an Armor Training: Shields?
A: Yes, and in the case of national you must choose an appropriate shield of course.


It appears that you can still take Weapon Training: Shield if you're offered a national choice during archetype or background.

John
Author:  archangel [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weapon Training: Shield
So with the weapon training change the only way to gain weapon training for shields is when it is given directly by another source, such as armor training shields or a path.
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