I just noticed a technical error that my brain skipped in the previous discussion (that will only affect the Strain).



Should be:



Adds about two points of Strain on average to the previous discussion.

That new rules are meant to mirror the same rules as Martial Techniques, so the errata is correct.

You take the Slowest Spells's Speed (Using Highest Strain to break ties) and Strain and add to that Strain equal to the Faster Spell's Speed.

Combining a 5 (4) spell with a 5 (3) spell gives a 5 (7) spell (Not a 5 (9) spell as you proposed)

Combining a 2 (5) spell with a 4 (2) spell gives a 4 (4) spell (Not a 4 (7) spell as you proposed)

This method makes sense conceptually as well as mechanically. You're transferring the speed of the 2nd spell into strain, so the faster the spell would have been, the less added strain there is.

John

Having the process work the same mechanically for both advanced spells and advanced maneuvers should help make life easier on players.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I just keep thinking the CTN is too damn low... hell you posted in another thread that a Tier 2 player can easily make the CTN for a Tier 4 spell

Yes, the base CTNs appear low... but the real grunt comes from the Adaptations (which still add up very quickly to unreachable CTNs) and the Adaptations don't get a discount on the CTN.

Just a question for thought...

I saw a few posts where someone did the math on CTNs. Taking two T1 spells @ -15, then two T2 spells, then two T3 spells, etc. And they showed how it becomes very difficult to cast some of those further up the chain. Well... Just as a general guideline, it seems to me that casting an advanced spell which is comprised of two T1 spells should be roughly equivalent of a T2 spell. That's probably an acceptable idea to everyone.

What about an advanced spell comprised of two T2 spells? Should that be roughly equivalent to a T4 spell or a T3 spell?

What about one made up from a T2 and a T1 spell? Is this roughly equivalent to a T3 spell or is it little more difficult to cast than the T2 spell that made it up?

Lastly, I ask you how difficult should an advanced spell comprised of two T4 spells be? Conceptually, should it be roughly equivelant to a T5 spell or a T8 spell? (Or somewhere in between?)

That concept needs to be nailed down before the math can be made to work.

Scott

I think attempting to equate a custom advanced spell may be an issue

the combinations you can create never seem to take place in higher tier spells...

two Tier IV spells (TN: 26) in the current (-15) system would be 37 which is a bit high (with 31 being average for a Tier 4.5 hero... 2d10(d12)+15)

two Tier I spells (TN:18) end up being 21, which for a Tier 1.5 character is not all that hard (average roll on 3d10+6)

On average I would want to see an advanced spell be the equivalent of two adaptions when two spells of equal tier are added together...

maybe highest CTN + X/Tier of the lower tiered spell?

This would give the following if X = 2 (The maximum it can be I believe without going back to the -12)

Assuming a Caster that has d10 casting die and +3 Casting Stat and adds +3 / Tier:
2 Tier I spells (CTN 18) = CTN 20 (Avg Arcanum Result: 18-21)
- Compare with: 2 Tier I Adaptations: CTN 24

2 Tier II spells (CTN 21) = CTN 25 (Avg Arcanum Result: 21-24)
- Compare with: 2 Tier II Adaptations: CTN 27

2 Tier III spells (CTN 24) = CTN 30 (Avg Arcanum Result: 24-27)
- Compare with: 2 Tier III Adaptations: CTN 30

2 Tier IV spells (CTN 27) = CTN 35 (Avg Arcanum Result: 27-30)
- Compare with: 2 Tier IV Adaptations: CTN 33

John

Still too low at low tiers

:::grumbles:::