Paradigm Concepts :: View topic - Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die

when combining two damaging spells which deal (Primary) damage, you only roll one (Primary) but gain a +2 bonus to your damage roll

With the Advanced Spell change to combining damage effects,

Quote:

when combining two damaging spells which deal (Primary) damage, you only roll one (Primary) but gain a +2 bonus to your damage roll

The oddball rule for only one die exploding in an Advanced Martial Technique also needs a review.

Example (high level, but shows a long term issue, being a T5 is not the point):
Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack
wait for recovery to clear
Tick X: Moment of Prescience; Effect: Weapon (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In)
ALL FOUR attributes are eligible to explode, as its only a Base Category Man.

Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack
wait for recovery to clear
Tick X: Moment of Prescience+Mighty Throw; Effect: Weapon+5 (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In)
Only ONE attribute die can explode.

Q&A: How do you determine which die can explode? If it is after you roll, there is a mechanical advantage over advanced spells. If it is before, balance with the new Advanced Spell rules is (mostly) maintained.

Additional suggestion: Bonus attribute die for all Martial Techniques and Spells have the brackets removed (so they don't explode).

A sub-reason is that in online play, the die parsers can't deal with that rule exception.

If only the (Primary) or the (Weapon Attribute) die can explode and no attribute die given by a Martial Technique or Spell can explode, then there aren't more than one exploding die to deal with, regardless of the way stacking rules get involved.

No weapon gives extra attribute die without a LMT or Spell being involved in the process.

Effects: The effects of both maneuvers are combined. Single Target maneuver effects are applied to all Targets when combined with a multiple Target maneuver. If two maneuvers which grant (Attribute) die are combined the new maneuver only retains one of its attribute die (player’s choice) at a +2 bonus. If one of the maneuvers granted multiple attribute die increase the bonus to +6

Base maneuvers Attribute die granted by a manoeuver do not explode.

Advanced ManeuversEffects: The effects of both maneuvers are combined. Single Target maneuver effects are applied to all Targets when combined with a multiple Target maneuver. Attribute die granted by a maneuver do not explode.

Also, you may not combine maneuvers with a Push speed.

I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice).

wilcoxon wrote:

What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode?

Just make it unerversal

PCI_StatMonkey wrote:

wilcoxon wrote:

What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode?

Just make it unerversal

Doesn't this break the 'general rule' of Attribute Dice exploding?

The average damage on a regular dX is (X/2 +.5). The average damage on a regular exploding dX is roughly (X/2 + 1.5) with a bit more for lower die types (d4/d6). Is the extra point of damage potential from the multiple exploding die that problematic given infrequently adding additional attribute dice occurs until higher tiers?

Author:	Southernskies [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
With the Advanced Spell change to combining damage effects, Quote: when combining two damaging spells which deal (Primary) damage, you only roll one (Primary) but gain a +2 bonus to your damage roll The oddball rule for only one die exploding in an Advanced Martial Technique also needs a review. Example (high level, but shows a long term issue, being a T5 is not the point): Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack wait for recovery to clear Tick X: Moment of Prescience; Effect: Weapon (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In) ALL FOUR attributes are eligible to explode, as its only a Base Category Man. Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack wait for recovery to clear Tick X: Moment of Prescience+Mighty Throw; Effect: Weapon+5 (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In) Only ONE attribute die can explode. Q&A: How do you determine which die can explode? If it is after you roll, there is a mechanical advantage over advanced spells. If it is before, balance with the new Advanced Spell rules is (mostly) maintained. Additional suggestion: Bonus attribute die for all Martial Techniques and Spells have the brackets removed (so they don't explode). A sub-reason is that in online play, the die parsers can't deal with that rule exception.

Author:	PCI_StatMonkey [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
Southernskies wrote: With the Advanced Spell change to combining damage effects, Quote: when combining two damaging spells which deal (Primary) damage, you only roll one (Primary) but gain a +2 bonus to your damage roll The oddball rule for only one die exploding in an Advanced Martial Technique also needs a review. Example (high level, but shows a long term issue, being a T5 is not the point): Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack wait for recovery to clear Tick X: Moment of Prescience; Effect: Weapon (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In) ALL FOUR attributes are eligible to explode, as its only a Base Category Man. Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack wait for recovery to clear Tick X: Moment of Prescience+Mighty Throw; Effect: Weapon+5 (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In) Only ONE attribute die can explode. Q&A: How do you determine which die can explode? If it is after you roll, there is a mechanical advantage over advanced spells. If it is before, balance with the new Advanced Spell rules is (mostly) maintained. Additional suggestion: Bonus attribute die for all Martial Techniques and Spells have the brackets removed (so they don't explode). A sub-reason is that in online play, the die parsers can't deal with that rule exception. I have already been thinking applying something like this to Advanced Maneuvers/Tricks. the main issue is the fact that all weapon attacks have an attribute die, even if the rule was applied you would still have to deal with.. at least.. 2 attribute die

Author:	Southernskies [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
If only the (Primary) or the (Weapon Attribute) die can explode and no attribute die given by a Martial Technique or Spell can explode, then there aren't more than one exploding die to deal with, regardless of the way stacking rules get involved. No weapon gives extra attribute die without a LMT or Spell being involved in the process.

Author:	PCI_StatMonkey [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
Southernskies wrote: If only the (Primary) or the (Weapon Attribute) die can explode and no attribute die given by a Martial Technique or Spell can explode, then there aren't more than one exploding die to deal with, regardless of the way stacking rules get involved. Except the only way to get (Primary) to any spell attack is to cast a spell with (Primary) Unlike a weapon which, in essence, has it's own (Primary) in the form of an attribute die Southernskies wrote: No weapon gives extra attribute die without a LMT or Spell being involved in the process. Correct but something like Moment of Prescience would have you rolling 3 attribute die...

Author:	Southernskies [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
Draft 2.1 wrote: Effects: The effects of both maneuvers are combined. Single Target maneuver effects are applied to all Targets when combined with a multiple Target maneuver. If two maneuvers which grant (Attribute) die are combined the new maneuver only retains one of its attribute die (player’s choice) at a +2 bonus. If one of the maneuvers granted multiple attribute die increase the bonus to +6 This change is too much the other direction, I think. Having multiple bonus die is one of the 'schticks' of LMT. (Also, since its a 'replace text' item, you've missed the Push restriction) (Primary) die is specific to spells and having (Primary)(Primary)+damage die was an issue. The underlying mechanic of LMT interacting with the Weapon (Mi) or Weapon (Qu) base damage isn't, and shifts the advantage to spellcasting more than currently. suggestion wrote: Base maneuvers Attribute die granted by a manoeuver do not explode. Advanced ManeuversEffects: The effects of both maneuvers are combined. Single Target maneuver effects are applied to all Targets when combined with a multiple Target maneuver. Attribute die granted by a maneuver do not explode. Also, you may not combine maneuvers with a Push speed.

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Author:	wilcoxon [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice).

Author:	PCI_StatMonkey [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
wilcoxon wrote: I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice). What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode? Just make it unerversal

Author:	Southernskies [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
Which is my original proposal.

Author:	Harliquinn [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PCI_StatMonkey wrote: wilcoxon wrote: I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice). What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode? Just make it unerversal Doesn't this break the 'general rule' of Attribute Dice exploding? The average damage on a regular dX is (X/2 +.5). The average damage on a regular exploding dX is roughly (X/2 + 1.5) with a bit more for lower die types (d4/d6). Is the extra point of damage potential from the multiple exploding die that problematic given infrequently adding additional attribute dice occurs until higher tiers? John

Author:	PCI_StatMonkey [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
Harliquinn wrote: PCI_StatMonkey wrote: wilcoxon wrote: I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice). What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode? Just make it unerversal Doesn't this break the 'general rule' of Attribute Dice exploding? The average damage on a regular dX is (X/2 +.5). The average damage on a regular exploding dX is roughly (X/2 + 1.5) with a bit more for lower die types (d4/d6). Is the extra point of damage potential from the multiple exploding die that problematic given infrequently adding additional attribute dice occurs until higher tiers? Except when you combine two maneuvers which currently grant an attribute die.. you can, currently, end up rolling 3 attribute die.. at higher tiers you can do 4 I do agree though.. I rather not lose the "attribute die always explode" as it's one of the core rules built into the system. I see no "clean" way do to it other then some static damage modifier in place of additional attribute die.

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