Last visit was: It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:20 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 991
With the Advanced Spell change to combining damage effects,
Quote:
when combining two damaging spells which deal (Primary) damage, you only roll one (Primary) but gain a +2 bonus to your damage roll

The oddball rule for only one die exploding in an Advanced Martial Technique also needs a review.

Example (high level, but shows a long term issue, being a T5 is not the point):
Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack
wait for recovery to clear
Tick X: Moment of Prescience; Effect: Weapon (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In)
ALL FOUR attributes are eligible to explode, as its only a Base Category Man.

Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack
wait for recovery to clear
Tick X: Moment of Prescience+Mighty Throw; Effect: Weapon+5 (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In)
Only ONE attribute die can explode.

Q&A: How do you determine which die can explode? If it is after you roll, there is a mechanical advantage over advanced spells. If it is before, balance with the new Advanced Spell rules is (mostly) maintained.

Additional suggestion: Bonus attribute die for all Martial Techniques and Spells have the brackets removed (so they don't explode).

A sub-reason is that in online play, the die parsers can't deal with that rule exception.

_________________
LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.4
LA:5E; Magdelene of Ostermann, Dark-kin Courtesan Rog3(Bard)/HC2 (future twilight warrior)
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Miami Florida
Southernskies wrote:
With the Advanced Spell change to combining damage effects,
Quote:
when combining two damaging spells which deal (Primary) damage, you only roll one (Primary) but gain a +2 bonus to your damage roll

The oddball rule for only one die exploding in an Advanced Martial Technique also needs a review.

Example (high level, but shows a long term issue, being a T5 is not the point):
Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack
wait for recovery to clear
Tick X: Moment of Prescience; Effect: Weapon (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In)
ALL FOUR attributes are eligible to explode, as its only a Base Category Man.

Tick 1: Unbalancing Attack
wait for recovery to clear
Tick X: Moment of Prescience+Mighty Throw; Effect: Weapon+5 (Qu) ++ (Pr) + (Qu) + (In)
Only ONE attribute die can explode.

Q&A: How do you determine which die can explode? If it is after you roll, there is a mechanical advantage over advanced spells. If it is before, balance with the new Advanced Spell rules is (mostly) maintained.

Additional suggestion: Bonus attribute die for all Martial Techniques and Spells have the brackets removed (so they don't explode).

A sub-reason is that in online play, the die parsers can't deal with that rule exception.


I have already been thinking applying something like this to Advanced Maneuvers/Tricks.

the main issue is the fact that all weapon attacks have an attribute die, even if the rule was applied you would still have to deal with.. at least.. 2 attribute die

_________________
Pedro Barrenechea
Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
Miami, Florida


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:20 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 991
If only the (Primary) or the (Weapon Attribute) die can explode and no attribute die given by a Martial Technique or Spell can explode, then there aren't more than one exploding die to deal with, regardless of the way stacking rules get involved.

No weapon gives extra attribute die without a LMT or Spell being involved in the process.

_________________
LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.4
LA:5E; Magdelene of Ostermann, Dark-kin Courtesan Rog3(Bard)/HC2 (future twilight warrior)
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:26 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Miami Florida
Southernskies wrote:
If only the (Primary) or the (Weapon Attribute) die can explode and no attribute die given by a Martial Technique or Spell can explode, then there aren't more than one exploding die to deal with, regardless of the way stacking rules get involved.


Except the only way to get (Primary) to any spell attack is to cast a spell with (Primary)

Unlike a weapon which, in essence, has it's own (Primary) in the form of an attribute die

Southernskies wrote:
No weapon gives extra attribute die without a LMT or Spell being involved in the process.


Correct but something like Moment of Prescience would have you rolling 3 attribute die...

_________________
Pedro Barrenechea
Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
Miami, Florida


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:38 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 991
Draft 2.1 wrote:
Effects: The effects of both maneuvers are combined. Single Target maneuver effects are applied to all Targets when combined with a multiple Target maneuver. If two maneuvers which grant (Attribute) die are combined the new maneuver only retains one of its attribute die (player’s choice) at a +2 bonus. If one of the maneuvers granted multiple attribute die increase the bonus to +6


This change is too much the other direction, I think. Having multiple bonus die is one of the 'schticks' of LMT. (Also, since its a 'replace text' item, you've missed the Push restriction)

(Primary) die is specific to spells and having (Primary)(Primary)+damage die was an issue. The underlying mechanic of LMT interacting with the Weapon (Mi) or Weapon (Qu) base damage isn't, and shifts the advantage to spellcasting more than currently.

suggestion wrote:
Base maneuvers Attribute die granted by a manoeuver do not explode.

Advanced ManeuversEffects: The effects of both maneuvers are combined. Single Target maneuver effects are applied to all Targets when combined with a multiple Target maneuver. Attribute die granted by a maneuver do not explode.

Also, you may not combine maneuvers with a Push speed.

_________________
LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.4
LA:5E; Magdelene of Ostermann, Dark-kin Courtesan Rog3(Bard)/HC2 (future twilight warrior)
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice).

_________________
Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:20 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Miami Florida
wilcoxon wrote:
I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice).


What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode?

Just make it unerversal

_________________
Pedro Barrenechea
Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
Miami, Florida


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:45 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 991
Which is my original proposal.

_________________
LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.4
LA:5E; Magdelene of Ostermann, Dark-kin Courtesan Rog3(Bard)/HC2 (future twilight warrior)
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:02 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am
Posts: 2046
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
wilcoxon wrote:
I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice).


What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode?

Just make it unerversal


Doesn't this break the 'general rule' of Attribute Dice exploding?

The average damage on a regular dX is (X/2 +.5). The average damage on a regular exploding dX is roughly (X/2 + 1.5) with a bit more for lower die types (d4/d6). Is the extra point of damage potential from the multiple exploding die that problematic given infrequently adding additional attribute dice occurs until higher tiers?

John

_________________
- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Advanced Martial Techniques and exploding die
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:17 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Miami Florida
Harliquinn wrote:
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
wilcoxon wrote:
I agree that the attribute dice for martial techniques are (mostly) fine the way they are and don't need to be down-graded to +2 or +6. The only thing that needs fixing is the exploding base vs advanced difference (assuming the base maneuver gives multiple attribute dice).


What about just stating that any attribute die granted through a maneuver can not explode?

Just make it unerversal


Doesn't this break the 'general rule' of Attribute Dice exploding?

The average damage on a regular dX is (X/2 +.5). The average damage on a regular exploding dX is roughly (X/2 + 1.5) with a bit more for lower die types (d4/d6). Is the extra point of damage potential from the multiple exploding die that problematic given infrequently adding additional attribute dice occurs until higher tiers?


Except when you combine two maneuvers which currently grant an attribute die..

you can, currently, end up rolling 3 attribute die.. at higher tiers you can do 4

I do agree though.. I rather not lose the "attribute die always explode" as it's one of the core rules built into the system.

I see no "clean" way do to it other then some static damage modifier in place of additional attribute die.

_________________
Pedro Barrenechea
Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
Miami, Florida


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric, PCI_StatMonkey Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki