Ok. For casters I think it's pretty much a given that their spell casting talent comes first and skills follow quickly behind. I'm curious if that's the case, but more curious how non-casters think about advancements.

Do you have any sort of pattern? What's your thinking on when to take skills vs. Talents and Martial Techniques or even Defenses?

I've found that in most of the non-caster write ups I do the front part of a tier ends up being loaded with more talents or new options with skills roughly in the middle. Still trying to sort out what makes the most sense.

So, thoughts, suggestions?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

For my current, I concentrated on talents and paths and am really feeling that lack of skill advancement. With only 9 advancements at T1, I'm skimping on the Martial Techniques as well, which again is starting to be a problem.

Mostly due to a concept change to full caster by T2.2

1. Creation/ any 1 talent/ any 2 maneuvers
2. Path
3. +2 all defenses
4. +1 all skills
5. Three + passive logic skills
6. Archetype skills
7. Any 2 talents
8. Two Archetype talents
9. +1 to two attributes
10. +1 to 2 different attributes

With a few exceptions, must of my characters, no matter the archetype. Order varies.

Tier X.1 - Background or Path
Tier X.2 - 2 Talents
Tier X.3 - +1 to 2 Attributes
Tier X.4 - 2 Skill Talents
Tier X.5 - +1 all Trained Skills
Tier X.6 - +2 all Defenses
Tier X.7 - +1 to 3 +Lo Skills
Tier X.8 - 1 Talent
Tier X.9 - +1 to 2 Attributes
Tier X.10 - +1 to 3 + Lo Skills

Generally that order unless I need a requirement for a Path.

John

So what would your general order be for non-casters? I would have to imagine for example that the "I Talent" option would get selected after the "Any 2 Talents" in general.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I like hitting things so I front load the skills as much as possible. I don't mind being hit and IME everything except the BIs/Delves is fairly survivable so the +2 to all defenses tends to be nearish the back.

For Tukufu (Expert)I went:
1.1 Creation
1.2 Learn 2 Skills at 2 ranks each
1.3 Advance 6 skills (1 rank each)
1.3 Advance 6 skills (1 rank each)
1.4 Path (Sword Sage Initiate)
1.6 Advance ALL Skills 1 ranks
1.7 +1 to any 2 attributes
1.8 Any 2 Talents (needed 1.7 to qualify for Quick, otherwise would have done this earlier)
1.9 +2 to ALL defenses
1.10 +1 to 2 attributes

2.1 Path (Sword Sage Master)
2.2 Advance 6 skills

You've got the first 2 attributes earlier than Defenses. What helps prioritize those earlier and does it matter what the current numbers are? I would expect that if you're not getting either a die bump or a passive bump that you'd be better off with the defense bonus first.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Generally I will prioritize the attribute boosts when they are taking me to a 5, 7, or 8. Since those are sometimes going to give me a point of defense also. If I'm about to get into a BI, I'll take the defense bonus, but if I need to meet a requirement I'll do the attribute first.

John

Eric,

The 2 extra skills before ranking up makes sense. I also get where you're coming from in terms of hitting vs. Defense. Over the weekend if I was missed more than 5 times total I'll be shocked. Only in a tiny number of cases would that +2 have made a difference.

I noticed that you didn't take the "Any 2 Skill Talents" in Tier 1. Is that because you pretty much already had the ones you wanted and that's the extra rank you add in for the higher tiers?

Also, you mentioned advancing 6 skills at 2.2 rather than all skills. Am I correct in believing that these are the core skills and that you're planning on adding 2 new skills in Tier 2 as well? Hence advancing the smaller set of skills twice and then making sure to add the additional skills before adding +1 to all?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Correct I did not take Any 2 skill talents... one of the talents I did take was Quick which was a skill talent ... but Skill talents IMO usually just aren't as fundamental to the mechanics of a character as Combat talents are to a warrior or Adaptation talents are to a caster. All in all it has been my experience that you more or less get all the skills you want at the ranks you want as an Expert ... but you really feel pinched for talents (if you wanted to make a Leadership of Loyal Companion build then the Any 2 Skill Talents would be much more useful to you then what I am doing with Tukufu). I may take Any 2 skill talents in Tier II ... I do want Acrobatics, Daredevil and Wary eventually.

Correct. I plan to gain another round of gaining 2 skills at 4 ranks each. =) Even Experts can't be great at everything but walking out of Tier 2 with 5 ranks in Deceit and Linguistics will round out and complete Tukufu's face and knowledge skills.