Arcane Strike speed is including the weapon speed already, it's not doubling the weapon speed. So a broadsword would be Speed 4, compared with the Spell. The higher speed becomes the new total speed and the lower of the two becomes the recovery. The values mentioned, in the writeup or the example never say the speed is now +(something), as other maneuvers do, so the implication is that it is the total speed. This is how the example is done as well. If the intent was the other way, it needs clarified and the example eratta'ed. Working it the other way is even *much* worse than any other maneuver out there for damage.

My point with area is there are already existing ways to take single target spells and make them into areas. Arcane Strike provides an additional way, but it's certainly not the only way. As for other spells, I have no plans to do an exhaustive spell search. *most* spells being used in a regular way with Arcane Strike's Tier IV ability give you about a 1-2 Tick advantage every 'cycle' of combat. That seems fitting for a Tier IV ability for a fighting style. Otherwise, if it gives no benefit above what you can already do, why take it?

John

The example never gives tick examples for usage, just the math for the maneuver. As written you get the weapon's speed "twice" or once and once as recovery. If it isn't intended to be this way it definitely needs a rewrite.

Yes IIRC, it would be worst with damage, and with the exception of hurl or a vampiric spell. As you read it, it's a decent damage maneuver seeing as depending on the weapon and speed of the spell you can potentially add damage for no tick gain just recover and strain. Not sure I would consider that better than mighty swing or not, I guess it would depend.

If the speed is as you say it is then the tick advantage on strain is only 1-2 ticks. This would move the fourth tier ability from overpowered to just optimal/really good in my book.

It would move Arcane Strike into the overpowered view when using non-damage only spells.

To me, if it's a toss up between Mighty Swing or the Arcane Strike, then it's a fairly balanced option. Arcane Strike suffers from some drawbacks used with a damage spell, but it offers the chance to do elemental damage.

It's strength as I have seen it (and as Pedro has confirmed) is in combining it with a status effect spell. I don't feel that any single spell delivered with Arcane Strike (doing a little extra damage) is overpowered. I'll admit there are some spells that when used with Arcane Strike and multi-attack Advanced Maneuver, become problematic potentially. However, having not seen Tier IV play with just regular Advanced Maneuvers or Spells, it's hard for me to say if it would be overpowered. Maybe the 'boost' in power at those Tiers is to take building block items and spread them to more targets.

John

You don't need to be tier 4 to drop a status effect spell on a 3 target sweeping strikes. Enemy of My Enemy for example. And it's not just some spells, any spell that drops a status effect, control or utility on a foe plus the those 3 maneuvers is going to be overpowered.

But for an over all look. With either speed Arcane Strike as is, is currently overpowered because of AoE plus effects. The T4 strain reducer depends on how the speed of Arcane Strike works. But I'm thinking not very overpowered, just good.

That's how I've viewed it, good and useful, but not overpowered.

I agree there's potential for the multi-target problem. I don't think making it an Advanced Maneuver is the solution, as Arcane Strike synergies well with things like Lunge, Passing Strike, Unbalancing Attack, etc. which don't really increase the 'power' of Arcane Strike. I don't have a good suggestion (if any is needed) for combining it with other maneuvers, other than perhaps a special rule like "When combining Arcane Strike with a Base Maneuver that targets more than 1 target, apply a special +X Recovery and +Y Strain or something along those lines.

John

John, I'm curious how your analysis changes when you add adaptations to spells. Arcane Strike states it must be a base spell, but nothing about adding adaptations. What about Delay Strain, Elemental Empowerment, Piercing Spell, or Rapid Spell. Also what about adaptation from the spells themselves. Elemental Bolt has a die bump adaptation, even a Tier 1 character can die bump it once being 1.10. How do these adaptations effect your numbers?

For a straight damage spell the best you could do is a d12 plus Elemental Empowerment. Which if you could nail it on the right spell would be grant you a better damage bonus than Mighty Swing for +0 speed if John reads correctly, but you would gain strain instead. The maneuver itself negates the Piercing Spell Adaptation.

I see no problem with any of those. Their 'power' is already accounted by in the adaptation's cost itself. If the adaptation is 'cheap' to use for the spell, then it makes sense to be cheap to use for the Arcane Strike.

The only 'gotcha' I see is where the Adaptations take the spell into "Demanding" (7 Ticks) speed and there could be a note in the Arcane Strike that only spells with a Casting Speed of 6 or less are allowed. Other than that, I see no particular problems. You're just delivering the spell at melee range, against 1 target, and getting a small boost in damage (Weapon Die).

John

Considering the 'cost' of getting access to Arcane Strike is much greater than getting access to Mighty Swing, I still think that is a good tradeoff, if you're adding that much potential Strain, etc. to boost the damage.

John