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| lesser Valinor http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=697 |
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| Author: | Dante [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | elder vs. primal magic [was: lesser Valinor] |
Nierite wrote: Elder Magic and Eldritch Magic requires that you have the 'spark' of the Arcane, giving you a genetic ability to manipulate the Arcanum. Elder requires intense study, while Eldritch is effectively improvisation rather than memorization. Primal Magic is you basically selling your soul to a powerful being (Minor God, Elder Elemental, Nature Spirit, etc) who grants you a portion of their power, which manifests as an ability to manipulate the Arcanum. I had agreed with Cody's descriptions based on the ARPG definitions. Now that Sorcerous Pacts is out, however, it blurs the lines between elder and primal magic. The pacts let elorii cast certain spells as elder magic even though they're originating from a powerful elemental lord. This makes me wonder whether perhaps all (or many) elder and eldritch spells might actually be via a third party like primal arcanum and the sorcerous pacts--it's just that it's all behind the scenes and invisible to the caster. For example, maybe Sarish (or His Valinor) actually power all eldritch spells. What do others think about this blurring of elder and primal magic introduced in the pacts? |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lesser Valinor |
I don't see a MAJOR issue with it, even though you are correct how the Pact Magic blurs the lines somewhat. From the fluff in the book they are not granting you access to the magic itself, merely 'placing into your mind' the spell in the case of the lower spells and it is up to you to cast it. Primal Magic is literally "I am merely a channel for this other guy's powers" while this would be him slipping you a note during a test with the answer on it. |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: lesser Valinor |
Yes, absolutely lines get blurred. But don't tell Telas! I hear the elorii get snipy when thier super mojo gets described as a lesser form of magic. Although I've always liked Cody's formulation as a short hand or a sound bite, I've never fully bought into his definition of primal magic. All primal practitioners use the spirits of the area to do the heavy lifting in spellcasting. But the casters still undergo strain so I assume they are also channelling and manipulating energy. It also seems to me that they need a grounding in arcane magic just to start contacting spirits. So i think its vastly more complicated then "selling their soul for power." Some primal casters clearly do just that. Some witches. Cultists. The Ehtzarta. But not all primal casters fit the in either of those camps. Some *ahem* seems to form pacts and alliances instead. Like many Under and some hinterland shamans. The big difference to me is that primal magic is a defined set of "combat moves" that can be used on the fly where ever you are with whatever spiritual resources are at hand. Pact magic is a single boon from a very powerful and very distant creature. It would be interesting to see Arcanis develop something along the lines of ritual magic that takes too long to be used n combat but produces powerful effects. Perhaps like what rituals should have been like in the 4th edition of D&D. |
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