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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:26 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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ZCaslar wrote:
However if my memory serves faithfully they do have gigantic, terrifying children... :shock:


PCIHenry wrote:
[snip]...

Were the Dragons that warred against the Celestial Giants scions of Kassregore and Yig? Hmmm... maybe; maybe not.


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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:59 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
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toodeep wrote:
2. What was that being? What is the Valinor equivelants for Kassegor and Yig?


I asked this about the elemental lords once. There is no equivalent of the Valinor to the other gods. Especially when you consider how they hold emotional aspects or channel divinity. The other gods have their agents and stronger children, but nothing like the Valinor in function or the thought of "celestial" beings or angels. Kassagore and Yig had plenty of dragons and serpentine creatures that may have worked for them or worshiped them, but nothing like you would think about solars working under the command of a God. And I'm sure the elemental lords had elemental followers, but I don't think they had control over them as a traditional D&D God would over Archons or angels.


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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:38 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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Quote:
There is no equivalent of the Valinor to the other gods.


That's not 100% true. In the old Arc there were two modules
LA-SP5-05 To Spin An Ancient Web
LA-SP5-10 Trembling of an Ancient Web

These gave a glimpse at the ancient civilization of the Issori. The culture that controlled the First City before the Ssethrics. In it there was one God with many facets. ie Anger, Protector, Prophecy, etc. During their fight against the Ssethregoran Empire the facets began to go mad and die. The Issori learned to contain the mad facets into giant crystals. But once they contained one they lost that aspect of themselves. When they contained the Anger facet they lost their drive for war and lost the First City to the Ssethrics.
That sounds a lot like when the Reluctance of Hurrian was killed and the Wrath of Hurrian was freed. The val'Tensen became quicker to anger and more unruly.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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Taking this further these modules also state that highly devote clerics of the Issori god could become facets and choose what aspect they represented. The other clerics were not sure how this happened. The Issori claimed that they could worship these facets for limited power the same way that worshiping their God granted but weaker.

I wonder (and leave you to wonder as well) if the Issori facets are the same thing as Valinor.

Perhaps there is something the First City that allows someone to become an Issori facet or human Valinor. Something that both the Ssethrics and Elorii never found.

If we look at Valinor. They are each an aspect of a god. This thread has an incomplete list.
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=730

Now some material states that the Gods came to Arcanis with their men, and Valinor. But there are no stories of specific Valinor during that time. There are vague mentions of Valinor attacking Belestor. But Valinor aren't really named until the Dragon's War. This is after humans took Belestor from the Elorii.
From the old campaign Manetas had worshipers and granted them power. Specifically they counted as a different church for the sake of Smite Infidel. And He could curse those that defiled his Holy places.
Also from the old campaign The Year of Ill Harvest a human extracts an organ from a Valinor, implants it into himself and slowly begins to change into a Valinor (or Valinor-like) as well.
Finally in "the Page" from the Black Book of Ymandragore it documents the Sorcerer King successfully implanting the organ in himself. And I don't think anyone would argue that the SK is a powerful being.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:59 am 
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The Vault wrote:
From the old campaign Manetas had worshipers and granted them power. Specifically they counted as a different church for the sake of Smite Infidel. And He could curse those that defiled his Holy places.
Also from the old campaign The Year of Ill Harvest a human extracts an organ from a Valinor, implants it into himself and slowly begins to change into a Valinor (or Valinor-like) as well.
Finally in "the Page" from the Black Book of Ymandragore it documents the Sorcerer King successfully implanting the organ in himself. And I don't think anyone would argue that the SK is a powerful being.

Now I could be wrong. I'm not as much of an expert on Arcanis lore as many other are. But I believe that you might be jumping to conclusions based on knowledge that is more limited than this. (For example, I don't believe that any player or PC in the game knows what was on that page.)

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:10 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Hello Scott,

DeadZone wrote:
Now I could be wrong. I'm not as much of an expert on Arcanis lore as many other are. But I believe that you might be jumping to conclusions based on knowledge that is more limited than this. (For example, I don't believe that any player or PC in the game knows what was on that page.)


Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:57 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Yep Vault doesn't have that knowledge, or yep, Scott could be wrong, as he started out his paragraph? I'm confused.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:10 am 
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toodeep wrote:
Yep Vault doesn't have that knowledge, or yep, Scott could be wrong, as he started out his paragraph? I'm confused.

Perhaps that was the point? Henry can be such a tease :P

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:21 pm 
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In the matter of the Page it is an artifact guarded by the val'Sosi family. During the last arc they were players who had the chance to play a special round with Henry to deal with Lucius Orata who had a plan to seize the power of the valinor as his own. They became the val Sosi family in the process and decided the info was "too hot" for general release.

However when PCI released the Year of Ill Harvest it was included. So knowledge of what's on the page is available OOC but not IC.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:33 pm 

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Hello Eric,

val Holryn wrote:
However when PCI released the Year of Ill Harvest it was included. So knowledge of what's on the page is available OOC but not IC.


Correct.

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