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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:22 am 
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Hard Eight wrote:
val Holryn wrote:
The metaphor Henry has used is that the Cant''s cosmic legos build the gun but it is the users faith that pulls the trigger.

:D Come to think of it he didn't quite use the words cosmic legos. Still ...

That is awesome. Unless Henry steps in and says that's totally wrong, I'm using that to explain Arcanis magic from now on.

I love threads like this. I was only been relatively recently introduced to Arcanis, and have very little knowledge of anything that happened while on the 3.5 d20 system. Some of you guys have been playing since the beginning and it feels daunting at times to be totally in the dark on things the old hands know and discuss because you were there when it happened.


One of the very great things about Arcanis is that there is a lot of subjective information out there that has to be decoded. So even the old hands often *don't know* as much as we think we do. As we get new pieces we constantly have to reevaluate. So don't be daunted. We're all peeling the onion together. Also the average person on Onara usually has no clue what we talk about here either ... So its not unusual to be surprised by something that doesn't work quite the way you thought it should.

The old campaign book (???Codex of Magic???) Had details on the creation of the universe, planes of existence and the nuts and bolts of how magic works.

Even though everyone is playing with the cosmic Lego's, the styles are all very different. For example sorcerers don't use faith to pull the trigger ... they build their own triggers through experimentation. And the cost for that freedom is the slow corruption/destruction of their bodies. Unless you're an elorii weilding elder sorcery which is much more refined (but slower). Primal casters seem to do some manipulation too but also get spirits (through negotiation, bribery or intimidation) to do much of the heavy lifting. Too lazy to play with legos on their own. Psions don't work like anything else ... The brain of awakened creatures seems to collect ambient energy which is shaped by the will...almost unconscious lego manipulation....or solipsism made real. Unfortunately seeking to become awakened can kill you by literally frying your brain.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:12 am 
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val Holryn wrote:
One of the very great things about Arcanis is that there is a lot of subjective information out there that has to be decoded. So even the old hands often *don't know* as much as we think we do. As we get new pieces we constantly have to reevaluate. So don't be daunted. We're all peeling the onion together. Also the average person on Onara usually has no clue what we talk about here either ... So its not unusual to be surprised by something that doesn't work quite the way you thought it should.

Fair enough. That both pulls me into the lore, and drives me batty. I'm one of those guys who just has to know. If Call of Cthulhu was real, I'd be a jabbering madman inside a day :P

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:47 am 
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Quote:
If Call of Cthulhu was real, I'd be a jabbering madman inside a day :P


It's not real?! Are you sure? *looks suspiciously at you* The shoggies got to you didn't they?

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:18 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
To follow up on some of the questions about churches this discussion brought up...

1. How did the Church of the fire dragon form, then? Didn't the original leader have a vision, or something, and decide to start following the fire dragon, and that is what lead to their migration? Does that mean that some divine being came and instructed them in Cants, so their church could have spellcasting powers?

2. What was that being? What is the Valinor equivelants for Kassegor and Yig?

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:54 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Hello,

In answer to your questions:

1 - I'm not ready to say.

2 - Kassegore and Yig do not have Valinor.

Hope that helps. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:55 am 
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Location: Central Alberta
According to the story, it was the Fire Dragon itself who spoke to the Matriarch of the Black Talons, using the story of being a ancient Ssethric deity once worshiped by the Empire of Yahssremore but had fallen out of favour due to evil Kassagore and Yig. We know (OOC) that the Fire Dragon IS Kassagore, which means that the Divine Cants taught to the Black Talons aren't too dissimilar to those of Kassagore. It is entirely possible that these are straight up Kassagore Cants, but due to the 5650 years between the Naga Coup (and ascendancy of the Varn) and the Black Talon migration, it is safe to assume that few if any were actually around to remember what actual Kassagore (and Yig) Cants are!

As to Ssethric "Valinor", as far as we are aware there is no such thing. The closest to a Valinor that exists within the known Ssethric pantheon are the draconic offspring of Kassagore and Yig, notably Jeggal Sag. From tradition, it was Kassagore (and presumably Yig too) himself who gave the Ssethrics their cants.

One point to remember is that the whole system of Cants vs. Spells breaks down slightly with the Ssethrics and the Elorii. We simply do not know enough about either compared to the Humans to really get a good 'feel' for how their Churches work. For example, we have no evidence that either the Black Talons or Elorii have any opposition to Arcane casting, or that their Cants work any differently. What I assume is that a "Cant" is a boxed-spell that anyone can cast, and the Gods (or other divine being) granted them to mortals as a sure-thing way of manipulating the arcanum. Kassagore and Yig (or very possibly the Dragons) did it for the Ssethrics, the Elemental Lords and Belisarda did it for the Elorii, and the Gods/Valinor did it for the Humans.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:05 pm 
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I think I read in the Ssethregore book last night that the Matriarchy ruling class knows that The Fire Dragon is an Aspect of Kassegore.

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:03 pm 
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toddpmorgan wrote:
I think I read in the Ssethregore book last night that the Matriarchy ruling class knows that The Fire Dragon is an Aspect of Kassegore.


The senior leadership does. A rank and file initiate doesn't. I think you learn the Truth somewhere around the time you would make Annoited Priestess.

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Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:47 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 802
Location: Michigan
PCIHenry wrote:
Hello,

In answer to your questions:

1 - I'm not ready to say.


Which makes me think I'm on to an interesting question... :)

PCIHenry wrote:
2 - Kassegore and Yig do not have Valinor.

Hope that helps. ;-)


That is very helpful. It is very in keeping with the statement that Anshar doesn't have Valinor, and thus created her val line herself. That may be the explanation for why she doesn't. If that is the case, than it is indicative that Kassegore probably isn't a facet of one of the other members of the PoM (or vice versa). And it weakens the arguement that Belesarda could be the "missing" member of the PoM that was supposedly killed by the other at the start of the God's war, since if she was the long lost member of the PoM, than she might have Val. (unless they were all killed, she was changed, etc., etc. when attacked by the Other)

We might be able to use the presence/absence of Val as an indicator of PoM membership status...

Do they have a Val equivalent communicating between them and their followers? Dragons or anything?

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 Post subject: Re: lesser Valinor
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:33 am 
PCIHenry wrote:
Hello,

In answer to your questions:

1 - I'm not ready to say.

2 - Kassegore and Yig do not have Valinor.

Hope that helps. ;-)



However if my memory serves faithfully they do have gigantic, terrifying children... :shock:


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