Sounds like something you could submit?

John

There is an Elorii book that has been promised to come out now. Granted it is supposed to be Elder magic, but I'm sure we can fit this in somehow

Sounds like a good idea to me!

Opps... no that was me forgetting that I need to advance my clock one after the first attack. So 1 +3 weapon speed +2 for TWF is 6.

Tal Kenath fighting style! That would hopefully be awesome!
And an Elorii book?! Perhaps I could make some suggestions as to backgrounds and paths that could be in there. ^_^

I think I might have an Idea why Attentea (sorry, you didn't sign your post) might be having homesickness for the old system. The old D20 system was geared more towards middle to high fantasy settings. Characters cast spells that created walls of fog, summoned huge elementals, threw meteors at their enemies and altered reality. Rogues could be consumed by shadows or hide in plain sight. And magic items were prolific. Elves (and in Arcanis, Elorii) were magical creatures; not just in story, but in the rules and the physics of the game.

In the new system, we have a much lower fantasy setting. Magic is much less commonplace. Wizards can't change the universe in the same way they could before. And the abilities of your characters are much more muted in order to match the world. Consequently, you (if I'm correct) feel as though you're playing a shadow of what you once were, even though, in reality your abilities are in-line with other PCs, when you compare them to what you could do in the old system, they just look dull and gray.

I can see that. I understand it. The world we play in today is a bit grittier than the d20 version. Sure, the politics are all still there. The intangible story elements are all still in the forefront. But we don't play as "magical" of characters as we did back then. We're still the heroes. We're still the crux of the stories. But I can see how one might have been accustomed to picturing an elorii as a magical/elemental being, which they still are, but the yardstick by which that measurement is made has changed. And even if you realize that you're dealing with apples and oranges, the oranges might look a little yellow by comparison.

Does that about sum it up?

If so, remembering some of the flaws of the old system might help out... The biggest flaw I saw is that PCs were only as good as their gear. You may have received all of the extraneous magic items, but if you were all beaten up and robbed, you'd have lost 75% of your effectiveness. Now, the character is the hero, not his equipment. Also, death had no meaning. Eh, so the prince died, just resurrect him. no biggie. Now, death is pretty final; as it should be. And another big one... "Wait! We need a cleric for the module or we won't survive!" "But I'm sick of playing clerics." Sound familiar? No more class-stereotypes. Okay, one more. In the d20 rules, ever stumble into an ambush where a dozen brigands are pointing crossbows at you and trying to rob you? Did you feel threatened? "Eh, I've got 40 hit points. Even if he crits me, I'll survive." The new system may not be perfect, but it certainly adds more realism. Maybe it will help to get more comfortable with the new yardstick. Maybe not.

Scott

Yes that does summarize how I feel fairly well.
I guess what makes elorii so awesome to me is the higher powered magical/elemental things about them, something that doesn't exist in this lower powered more realistic system. In talking with friends I was well aware that the new system is lower powered, it bothers some people, but others really like it. It's something I'll just have to learn to accept I guess. Perhaps after playing more elorii modules (I still need to play HP 2-4) I'll see better just how awesome elorii can be in the new system and learn to appriciate them more.

I just find it strange that by the same yardstick, that Vals have become more awesome in my eyes and elorii have become a disappointment. Perhaps I just have such high standards of elorii that by the new system everything else looks better, but elorii look worse. lol

In the mean time, I got one of the elorii incarnation pledge levels in the kickstarter. I plan to hopefully bring back a talent that is reminicent of the old system and will make my elorii just that extra bit more awesome.

Wow, that's a good thought. Goes off to look at ideas...

That's every race in the game except human, val, and oddly enough Undir. Elorii didn't have good skill options back in 3.5, but skills worked much more differently now didn't they. I think the way skills work for races in that human and val got the versatility is carry over from d20, even though it's apples and oranges.

I think for as much book crunch as was able to be put in the Core Rulebook, elorii got a descent amount of options. Yes there are a lot more options for vals and humans, but there are 12 gods and 14 val families in that book.

So after looking through the books again, both new and old I've been able to summarize what bothers me most about elorii in the new campaign rules.

1) I like many of the higher power abilities that elorii can get.
DeadZone summarized this well and I find that this is the case with my lifewarden. The higher powered spells and abilities that I had with her are no longer available in the lower powered new version.

2) The transition of some paths did not go well. Specifically Tal Kenath. I think it could have been much closer to the original and still been lower powered to fit the current rules. Also, the Bowman is no longer elorii only and no longer has arrow stab. What's the point in being a bowman if you can't arrow stab?! That was the best part in my opintion.

3) Lack of elorii options. What happened to Suromar (and all it's anti-psionics) and the Contemplation of elements (the elemental monks) and the Berotar (awesome cleric sailors) ? Hopefully they will be coming out in later books and hopefully there will also be more elorii specific talents, backgrounds and paths.

4) Skills.
Before, the life elorii were the mega awesome healers. Yet now when the pick skills they don't get to pick Arcanum (cants). Water Elorii were great rogues yet don't get Stealth. Earth elorii are ok in that they get a combat skill. In my mind they're the only kind of elorii worth playing anymore. Wind were good bards or rogues, but now they get perception. ... I guess perception is a good thing to have, but I don't see how that's a wind elorii thing. And finally fire were always the best arcane casters yet don't get Arcamun (Thaumaturgy).

The new elorii skills don't make sense to me. Ok I can understand the humans and vals get the versatility of picking a skill, but at the same time the elorii skills just don't make sense and I don't want to pick from what I do have the choices of. I find my build suffers because of it. If I want to be the best figher or caster that I can be, then it's better to go human or Val to be able to pick up another Arcanum or Melee skill instead of the other stuff I have to pick as an elorii.


Elorii in the new game mechanics are very much flavour now... or at least that what if feels like to me. You don't pick elorii because it gives you the best build or that super awesome path that you want, you pick elorii because you want to be an elorii for story sake.
That's what disappoints me the most.