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 Post subject: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Forums have been quiet so I have a question for all the Arcaniacs out there. At Origins we saw Calmemnon take a significant leave of the Cathedral of the Pantheon (in the First City) for the first time since we saw him go into it after the events of We Do What We Must.

That's three years of real world time. What was he doing in there? Since he's left for an extended visit to Coryani has he achieved whatever it was he hoped to do?

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Hello Eric,

Sorry if I gave the impression that Calmemnon was sitting in the cathedral for a year and a half. That wasn't my intention. He was in there for a couple of days.

However, the question of why he chose to walk into the cathedral right after his de facto coup and proclaiming himself imperator is a valid one. I would consider the action quite odd, without the proper context.

I'll leave it to you and the other Arcaniacs to determine what that context is.

Looking forward to reading all of your thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:46 pm 
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Hi Henry,

There are a couple of places that referenced Calmemnon mostly holed up in there. It' been made clear to me that while he comes out from time to time to check up on things, but judges I ask have said most of his time is in there. The impression i have is that most people aren't allowed into the Cathedral anymore. Is that accurate?

The setting time line obviously is not one to one with the real world.

I definitely have my own thoughts about what he was up to. Calmemnon really doesn't strike me as the super pious type. I'll post them, but wanted to poke and survey the audience at large...

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:00 am 
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...alas it seems I have no takers.

Okay. Three things stand out to me from the Blessed Lands book. The most important concerns the Cathedral of the Pantheon and it states that...
on Page 86 of the Blessed Lands book its wrote:
While the interior holy area was restored as best as possible and secured from menaces, the keen observer will note that all passages other than the main entrance are blocked off or otherwise sealed.
In other words there is no shortage of potential hiddey-holes in and around the Cathedral. In fact most of the original Emerald Society discoveries which led to the creation of the Mother Church were the result of things they found excavating under the Cathedral to the Pantheon. Those areas are sealed off because they connect to the ruins in the undercity & ultimately the unclean area.

So I think its sound speculation to assume that Calmemnon was looking for something he thought was hidden there. If your goal is creating the next Imperium what would you need beyond the Throne of Man?

The more boring suggestion I have is ... a huge pile of cash.
on page 82 of the Blessed Lands book its wrote:
The treasury of the Imperium was lost and was said to be so vast as to dwarf that of the Coryani and Khitani Empires combined ...snip... As yet, the treasury of the First Imperium remains unclaimed and ostensibly hidden somewhere be- neath the building
Honestly I hope this isn't it. Though this treasure is supposed to be under site 82 the Assembly Hall of the First Families. They are pretty close to each other in the First City. But still if this was Calemnon's aim I assume he would have occupied that building ... still that's a lot of pay-ola for a would be emperor.

A more interesting option is ... a big pile of ancient knowledge
page 149 its wrote:
the lost Tower of the Eternal Scholar, a near-mythical repository of knowledge founded by a group of worshippers of Althares that reportedly safeguarded the wealth of knowledge accumulated throughout the history of mankind from the purges of Leonydes val’Virdan after the fall of the Imperium. Tales speak of the fact that the Nierites were never able to find it though it was said to be hidden in plain sight.
How about hidden in the Cathedral of the Pantheon? Would that be in plain enough sight? If I had to guess this is what I would lay my imperials down on as a bet.

Anyone else have better ideas? Or even just other ideas?

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:13 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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I've had this thread sitting open, waiting to have time to get back to it, and so I'll add my few thoughts here.

Calmemnon's claim to the title of Imperator is effectively force of arms. He's powerful enough to take it and so he has. What is often desired by individuals who seize control is legitimacy. This could certainly be in the form of either proof of reason his claim should be accepted, to further actions he could take to cement his claim or even additional ceremonies or traditions that would invest him with further credibility or actual power.

Another option could have been to check the archives of Larissan prophesies tied to the a return of the First Imperator of Man to see if there's anything he should be aware of or looking for.

Another curious question - he left after a day and a half as Henry has stated. Does that mean that he found what he was looking for, did he confirm it wasn't there or did he run out of time? I doubt it was the last option.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:16 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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we know that even in the known parts of the temple there is information available that is not available to us - during the events of the storm the figure of the reluctance of Hurrian fell and shattered revealing another Valinor within. Considering this, we can imagine there are numerous valinoric images/statues and that they might actually stay "up to date" to some degree since one shattered upon the death of the valinor it represented. It would be interesting to find out what happened in there the day of the defeat of the Pride of Illiir. :)

But I doubt that Calmemnon went in there to count Valinor. Considering his quick entry, his fairly quick (few days) exit, and the lack of any obvious remodelling after his occupation (I am assuming passageways that were previously sealed remain sealed, etc.) this leads me to believe he had a pretty good idea what he was after and where it was.

From what we were told in Dar Zahn Vor, he and some others essentially went "somewhere" and came back supercharged and with some tools related to entropy. That does not bode well for things. Both Calmemnon and the val'Cesari he warned us about essentially claim the other one is the problem - but from what I can tell neither is necessarily supercharged by a god, but Calmemnon I believe is claiming he is a paragon of one (so far undisclosed) god. He obviously gained some serious knowledge from where ever he went, and thus came back looking for something he learned about. The question is - is it something that will help him become a divine paragon, or something that will just help him fake it?

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:44 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:48 pm
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toodeep wrote:
From what we were told in Dar Zahn Vor, he and some others essentially went "somewhere" and came back supercharged and with some tools related to entropy. That does not bode well for things. Both Calmemnon and the val'Cesari he warned us about essentially claim the other one is the problem - but from what I can tell neither is necessarily supercharged by a god, but Calmemnon I believe is claiming he is a paragon of one (so far undisclosed) god. He obviously gained some serious knowledge from where ever he went, and thus came back looking for something he learned about. The question is - is it something that will help him become a divine paragon, or something that will just help him fake it?


This may just be the conspiracy theorist within me, but perhaps Umor?

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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:29 am 
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AHA! Some responses.

Hat wrote:
...snip...Calmemnon's claim to the title of Imperator is effectively force of arms. He's powerful enough to take it and so he has. What is often desired by individuals who seize control is legitimacy.
Well that's certainly true enough. The only person to challenge him got turned into a statue toot-sweet. But I think that undersells Calemnon's position. Nasha rules the Golden Court after her husbands death, and she acknowledges him. So there is at least some legitimacy to his claim from there. And I really doubt the merchant cabal is going to stick its neck out when its profitability...seem to be doing just fine under the new management. On the legitimacy front, I think what Cal really needs is the recognition of other states ... and hey. What do you know. In Origins we see him leave on road trip to Coryani. Want to bet the Emperor sings from Calemnon's choir book when next we see him?

Hat wrote:
Another option could have been to check the archives of Larissan prophesies...
Certainly possible too. Personally I wouldn't drop everything to spend a couple of days on this when I just moved into town though. I'd either get settled first or put some minions on it. Still that's an idea worth keeping on the list.

Hat wrote:
Another curious question - he left after a day and a half as Henry has stated. Does that mean that he found what he was looking for, did he confirm it wasn't there or did he run out of time? I doubt it was the last option.
That's a great question. I also lean strongly A (or B). I think Ken agrees...

Toodeep wrote:
Considering his quick entry, his fairly quick (few days) exit, and the lack of any obvious remodelling after his occupation (I am assuming passageways that were previously sealed remain sealed, etc.) this leads me to believe he had a pretty good idea what he was after and where it was.
Yeah. Very plausible.

Vandom43 wrote:
This may just be the conspiracy theorist within me, but perhaps Umor?
LOL! The OTHER, who picked up the eloran nickname "Umor" may be the only thing out there that has been more systematically removed from the written record than the val'Cessari. As far we know actually starting with the gods of the Pantheon of Man while they still walking the mortal world. While we don't have enough bread crumbs to rule anything out, I'm not going to hold my breath that the name and secrets of the OTHER were held in the Cathedral of the Pantheon of Man all these years waiting for Calmemnon to pluck them from a secret hiding place. If the Priest of the Imperium ever came across anything referencing the Other I assume they burnt it on sight.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: What's up with Calmemnon & the Cathedral?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:42 am 
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toodeep wrote:
we know that even in the known parts of the temple there is information available that is not available to us - during the events of the storm the figure of the reluctance of Hurrian fell and shattered revealing another Valinor within. Considering this, we can imagine there are numerous valinoric images/statues and that they might actually stay "up to date" to some degree since one shattered upon the death of the valinor it represented. It would be interesting to find out what happened in there the day of the defeat of the Pride of Illiir. :)
Wow! I forgot about that. How cool that our PCs can go see that statue!

As I think about this though I really doubt that All the Valinor of the PoM have statues in the Cathedral. For one thing ... uh Anshar & Yarris?!? And probably Altheres. Kinda obvious somethings up when their sections are (extremely) blank by comparison. Imagine the poor stone mason in charge of "Illiir's sister." "Uh...most Holy goddess? We really need to start on your valinors' statues. We're almost done with Hurrian's. And the Heirophant is getting antsy that we might be offending you..." "I WILL SSSPEAK TO THE HEIROPHANT. I SSSAY LEAVE IT BLANK FOR NOW MORTAL."

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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