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 Post subject: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:52 pm 
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...Kassegore, Belisarda and perhaps Yarris.

What is the connecting thread for the three of them. I am trying to connect the dots....

If they had paragons, are there any plausible candidates we've met? (Besides Meliros for Belisarda?)

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:30 pm 

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Pyros Morialius for Kassegore, I mean the fire dragon.

Unless of course Kassegore also has an aspect as a human deity. After all, if Kassegore=Fire dragon as the black talon seem to believe, and the fire dragon=nier as the ashen hide believe, and all these people get the cants they pray for that are unique to their deity and belief in their deity is necessary for them to work... Than if Ashen hide can actually cast Fire dragon deity spells believing in Nier (or maybe Nier spells believing in the fire dragon), doesn't that mean that Kassegore=Nier? And since we've already had at least one paragon of Nier....

Oh, my head hurts.

Or Kassegore could be Altheres, as "Secret of Semar" seemed to imply, which is parallel with Altheres then not having Valinor just like Anshar/Yig doesn't. In which case Pyros Morialius could be the paragon of Altheres...

Unless a god can have a paragon for each aspect, like Yig having a paragon and Anshar having one... which would make things simpler in some ways, and more complex in others.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:10 pm 

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I don't think there is a connection between these 3 Gods. Well at least Belisarde is separate for sure.

Belisarda has been strongly implied to be the actual life force of the planet. When you read about her discovery in the Ssethregore book, and impact of her death in To Peel The Veil Of Lightness And Dark.
Kassegore is mainly portrayed to be a dragon. Except as the Fire Dragon where he is pictured as a giant ss'ressen. I feel Kassesgore might be the Cosmic Dragon or connected to it.
Yarris is a tricky one. Because of the rumors of him being worshiped on the planet before the PoM arrived, and his Heretical Aspect being called the Devourer of the Deep, and Kassegore having an Aspect called the Great Devourer. But there has been no connection between Yarris and reptiles of any sort. At this time I'd guess there is no connection between the Yarris and Kassegore, because Kassegore would have to be in to many places at the same time when going through the events.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:35 pm 

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The Vault wrote:
and impact of her death in To Peel The Veil Of Lightness And Dark.


Could you clarify this please? I didn't think there was anything in that module to indicate her death. I would love to know what brought you to this belief.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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It's all implied information, but I hope it makes sense like it did to me.

page 7 wrote:
At this time, Arcanis is a dying world and those who work with Arcane Magic, Divine Magic based upon Life or Nature, or are Ardakene Elorii will feel a profound change within moments of entering this world.

Specific description for Ardekene Elorii
"No sooner do you get your feet solid beneath you that you are wracked with pain. Before your eyes, your flesh begins to shrivel and dry like a grape left out in the sun too long."

Appendix 1 wrote:
When the PCs travel to the far future of Arcanis, they will discover a world, which is dying as Oblivion comes to take into the Eternal Night.
Ardakene Elorii
Given their innate bond with the planet Arcanis, they will suffer more acutely than anyone else.

Basically the world is dying, Belisarda is the life of the planet. Therefore she must be dead for the planet to be dying.
Also Elorii can feel Belisarda presence at all times aka she is alive.
PGtA pg 24 wrote:
The immediate presence of Belisarda is felt by her priests and to a lesser extent by the common Elorii.
So what would it feel like if she was gone? Probably exactly what the Ardekene felt when they journey to that future.

Gemellus val'Assante also mentions a time called the Age of Illumination where Manetas attacked every other nation, killing the Sleeping Emperor, and had a kind of Cold War with the SK. All other races were killed, Elorii, Dwarves, Ss'ressen, etc. So it just made sense that he found Belisarda and killed her. Either knowing her identity or unknowingly. He was not the brightest bulb in the box, he was a pawn of the Silence after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:27 am 
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I'm pretty sure Belisarda eats Manetas as a scoobie snack if it came to a direct confrontation. But otherwise yes, if she's not dead in that future she is certainly dying along with the planet.

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:44 pm 
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val Holryn wrote:
...Kassegore, Belisarda and perhaps Yarris.

What is the connecting thread for the three of them. I am trying to connect the dots....


If the Ssethric myth is correct that Arcanis is the first world that Kassegore created, that could imply that he directly created Belisarda.

If the Ssethric myth is correct that Kassegore discovered Yig when he returned to Arcanis to rest, that could imply that Yig is Anshar. (Moreover, if my theory is correct that Yig and Kassegore are two aspects of the same being, that would mean that Belisarda is an aspect of Kassegore, or at least they're both part of the Cosmic Dragon.) On the other hand, the historical records of priests of Belisarda being able to cast spells at the time when priests of Kassegore and Yig could not (when the Sseth tried to reconquer Belestor and the two Ssethric gods supposedly left Arcanis) contradicts this theory.

It is said even by the Mother Church that Yarris was present on Arcanis before the coming of the rest of the Pantheon of Man. Belisarda was present then, and Kassegore had been here. Thus, all three of them have supposedly ancient mythic connections with the world of Arcanis.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:06 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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Dante wrote:
If the Ssethric myth is correct that Kassegore discovered Yig when he returned to Arcanis to rest, that could imply that Yig is Anshar.

If you have not, please read the Adventure Background of the 3.5 campaign Year 6 Hard Point 4 Venom of the Daughter. The answer to this question has been given to us. Regardless of any personal theories, the Truth with a capital "T" of that theory has been revealed.

Dante wrote:
It is said even by the Mother Church that Yarris was present on Arcanis before the coming of the rest of the Pantheon of Man.

I'm curious where did the Mother Church ever say that? Because that sounds like something the Mother Church would say is heretical. Yarrs was on the Eastern Continent with 10 of the other Gods and came to Arcanis in pursuit of The Other. While here the 11 meet Anshar and the PoM was complete. I'm aware of non-Mother Church worshipers of Yarris who make the claim he was here before. Can you point to documentation (pdf/module/source book) of the Mother Church making this statement?

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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:55 pm 
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I've begun considering the possibility that the "connection" with Yarris is merely that there is a long sea journey to reach/on behalf of the paragons of the other two.

Though that makes no sense if Ven is the paragon of Kasse...er...the Fire Dragon.

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AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Three Gods...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
The Vault wrote:
I'm curious where did the Mother Church ever say that? Because that sounds like something the Mother Church would say is heretical. Yarrs was on the Eastern Continent with 10 of the other Gods and came to Arcanis in pursuit of The Other. While here the 11 meet Anshar and the PoM was complete. I'm aware of non-Mother Church worshipers of Yarris who make the claim he was here before. Can you point to documentation (pdf/module/source book) of the Mother Church making this statement?


Oddly, we had that exact same discussion in a Yarris module, and while we were discussing it I just happened to find the quote on Pg 226 ARG, flavor quote at the bottom of the page. At least the Patriarch believed this and I don't think he has been disavowed by the current church. IT kind of sounds like heresy, doesn't it? Some players at my table thought so to, but apparently its not...

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