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 Post subject: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
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Location: Portland OR
Forum is sooo quiet.

Anyone else wrestling with Paths for Tier 3 and beyond? Since Paths are most often 2 "Tiers" the first two are often easy... In Tukufu's case sword sage initiate & master.

The back three is a tougher call for me. I had initially thought Psion (for 2 Tiers) and 1 Tier of something like archeologist or Grandmaster. Sat down this week (it's quiet at work) and started crunching builds.

Archeologist is out. I essentially have it all (mechanically) already or can pick it up at will. Kinda too bad. I'd like the fluff aspect of having a path from the ES

Looked at Milandesian War Mind for all three tiers...but am ambivalent of taking a path named for Milandir with an Altherian PC (even if the teachings have spread). Like the capstone of the mechanics but not the fluff.

Think I'm down to Psion x2 & either a level of Altherian Trigger Mage or Grandmaster.... Altherian Trigger Mage would be very approximate for Tukufu. Grandmaster would be amazing if Tukufu ever gets a chance to duel with Matias...

Decisions decisions ....

Anyone else wrestling with their build at Tier 3 and beyond?

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:01 pm 
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Yes and no.

I often have all five Tiers sketched out as part of generating the character, as some requirements have too high cost unless started at creation (6 skill ranks over 4 tiers is easier than trying to cram in a new skill late in your career).

Fitting in retirement as a Legate is costly when a Martial caster. 6 ranks in 3 social skills + 2 more skill talents is tough going with the competition for slots.

My original progression changed when my Background suddenly had Legionnaire added to it (which opened up quite a few alternate pathways to get where I wanted).

My own T3+ Paths may change significantly if the Campaign Guide and/or Errata ever come out. Several things in the rules forum are affecting but not added to the official documents.

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LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Sword Sage II, T2.4
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 1
LRC:OP; Garrett "Hangman" Gibbson, Tech Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:32 pm 
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Location: Portland OR
::nods head::

I sketch things out too, so I will meet the requirements. As an expert archetype my problem is always having the right talents. My skills work out fine.

That said I don't do the math "all the way through." For example though Tukufu easily meets the Altherian Trigger Mage requirements he doesn't have enough talents to fully exploit it without either sacrificing ASC at Tier 5 (not going to happen!) or not getting the Tier 5 bloodline power (also probably not going to happen). So all three levels of Trigger Mage are out.

I'm working through all the trade offs right now...

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:03 pm 
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Wish I could fit in bloodline powers as well. Having to use General Talents for other character things makes it impossible.

General Talents: Arcane Spell Casting, +1 (I: Prestidigitation, II: Sabbatical, III: Loyal Retainer, IV+: open)
Martial Talents: Learn Fighting Style, Weapon Mastery.
LMT (2): +2 per Tier

I have to find somewhere to fit in "+1 Talent" advancements to get Bloodlines as well. I haven't had to 'buy' Leadership anywhere, as I took the hit during Tier I by getting it twice during creation and my later paths all have Leadership as a benefit.

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LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Sword Sage II, T2.4
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 1
LRC:OP; Garrett "Hangman" Gibbson, Tech Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Location: Northwest Territories, Canada
val Holryn wrote:
Archeologist is out. I essentially have it all (mechanically) already or can pick it up at will. Kinda too bad. I'd like the fluff aspect of having a path from the ES
...
Decisions decisions ....

Anyone else wrestling with their build at Tier 3 and beyond?

A little bit, yes. I was happy to see that the Warrior of the Eternal Flame had been republished in the Blessed Lands book, as Raseri has pursued that for a very long time. From a 'fluff' standpoint, it is perfect for him.

Mechanically, I had to significantly tweak his build to eventually qualify for WotEF, and I will get relatively minor mechanical benefits from it. That said, it is absolutely the right choice in my mind due to the story aspects.

For my other characters, at the moment there aren't really any Paths that have grabbed my attention. It will be some time before I have multiple characters pushing T3, so hopefully there will be more paths to choose from, and something which better fits those characters.

I know my wife has had similar issues, in that there are very few paths which fit her character concept well...although there admittedly isn't a huge demand for paths for turnip farmers turned herbalist healer.

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Akira Currier
aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Val Grand Master (Martial 2.10)
aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.4)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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Eric, have you considered Scholar? The first Tier of it has a limited Talent you couldn't otherwise pick up. As another alternative, have you considered Spy? Loyal to Altheria you actively funnel information to them especially about the events in the court, etc.? Otherwise the Triggermage or Grand Master paths might be your best option at this point.

Vincens for me is the most fluid of my builds, mostly because story events changed my direction for him. Right now he's a Spontaneously Awakened Sword Saint of Cadic. Tentative build goes Myrmidon T3 and then Sword Sage T4 & T5. That keeps him focused on the martial psionic core of the original build. I could go Holy Champion of Cadic T3 and then Keepers of Forgotten Lore T4 and T5. Given he's Orthodoxy and now dual wields gladius and short sword, it might complete the circle for being the Dark Hand of Illir, especially considering he took a 27 point hit for trying to remove a black gladius from the Shrine of Illir in Larissa's Vault. That would be a complete story build as his Max Charisma hits 6 in Tier 5 and there are no Cadic / Illir spells so far. Not to mention needing to gain Knowledge: History somehow along the way The other option is instead to focus on Assassin and get all of the murderous precision levels by the end of T5. And to complicate things further, with him having the Academy of Epics and Songs in the First City, Bard is also a very fitting choice at least for 1 Tier.

The Mountain's a bit easier. Myrmidon was T1 and Grand Master of the Great Trident for T2 and T3. Arguably Magi for T4 and T5, but the Matias / Calmemnon story is throwing him for a loop as it did with Tukufu. Still need to write the epilogue and invite folks to the wedding. Especially as that would provide an opportunity for Tukufu and The Mountain to commiserate together. The challenge is that his wife and perhaps by extension Matias / Calmemnon know his secret. Getting outed to the Ymmandragorans is a real threat. Disappearing is a real trick when you're a distinctive hero over 8'. I'm anxious to see what comes of that storyline.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:37 am 
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Location: Portland OR
Hi Hat,

Those are good thoughts. I had not considered spy...but looking at it I can quickly put that concept aside. It's an interesting idea from the fluff side but I think most NPCs would think Tukufu talks way too much (rather than holding secrets) to give much thought of recruiting him. Mechanically it's also pretty meh for someone in the expert archetype. Especially if you don't have a lot of streetwise. Finally the talents aren't that sexy and I could get them easily with "any 2 skill talents" if I wanted them...so I an rule that out.

On the other hand I (Of course!) have considered scholar. Several times! The talent Academic Network has me all but drooling as both a matter of fluff & mechanics. But I have two issues with the Path...

One (on the fluff side) is that taking 1 tier of it earns you the label of "apprentice scholar" .... somehow that's a hard pill to swallow for Tukufu at Tier 3. Curse you ego!!! Still I'd probably jump on this but for the real bar ... Which is that at Tier 3 Tukufu does not qualify. = (

I don't have three different knowledge skills at 6+ ranks. I have Knowledge (History) easy and then some. Knowledge (Myths) is juuussst under .... I could make that happen by sacrificing a smidgen somewhere else. Then I'm in trouble. I do have other knowledge skills like Knowledge (Engineering), but none of them is currently above 3 skill ranks.

[edit: as an aside Tukufu has a Logic of 5 (Insight of 10) which gives him 6 skills points per Expert advancement option. Three of the 6 *always* go to feeding Arcanum (Meditation), Melee (Balanced) & Ranged (Marksmanship). I also always feed Perception because as a Tomb Raider I see Tukufu as a trap finder...thought it almost never comes up in the context of looking for traps, Perception is still a great skill to have tricked out. Those are my 4 core skills and they go up by three every Tier. I split the remaining two adavnace to get "four more" skills that go up by 2 every Tier. Those are Athletics, Knowledge (History), Larceny & Persuasion. Everything else only goes up 1 rank per tier barring paths or fudging something. Having 6 ranks of 3 different knowledge skills is a hefty prerequisite. I guess I could change the ackground to scribe...but that really doesn't describe what I see as Tukufu's origen]

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Last edited by val Holryn on Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Location: Portland OR
For what it's worth Tukufu is just about as screwed as the Mountain. He's been warning anyone who will listen IC that the Destroyer is Calemnon and that he's coming. And that we all have to do "damage control" when he turns up. I'm hoping sitting down and shutting up will keep him away from a firing squad in the immediate future, but it's a pretty good bet that Tukufu isn't getting a Christmas gift from the Golden Court this year ...

(On the other hand Tukufu has kept a certain other secret quiet even from Belinay ... just who are these val'Cessari that Calemnon seems interested in???)

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1278
val Holryn wrote:
<snip>
On the other hand I (Of course!) have considered scholar. Several times! The talent Academic Network has me all but drooling as both a matter of fluff & mechanics. But I have two issues with the Path...

One (on the fluff side) is that taking 1 tier of it earns you the label of "apprentice scholar" .... somehow that's a hard pill to swallow for Tukufu at Tier 3. Curse you ego!!! Still I'd probably jump on this but for the real bar ... Which is that at Tier 3 Tukufu does not qualify. = (


From a "title" perspective given that the 2nd Tier is Master Scholar, I think calling yourself a Scholar vs Apprentice Scholar is fine. The title of Master requires a certain amount of recognition after all, and apparently the heathens that call themselves scholars haven't properly availed themselves of Tukufu's shop or expertise. ;)

From a mechanics perspective, it's actually fairly easy. Take the "Any 2 skills" option available to Experts. It's 2 ranks / tier at tier 3 is 6 ranks in 2 Knowledge skills of your choice. You already have the 3rd skill at 6+ ranks and never need to touch them again and they'll still be respectable.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Where to go next with Paths...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:40 pm 
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Location: Portland OR
I can indeed take the any 2 skills option. But you only get so many options per Tier.

3 skill bumps. Path. Any 2 talents. +2 to all defenses. For most people (including me) those 6 choices are set in stone. Leaves four to play with. Two of those are being sunk into stat increases...which may not be mechanically ideal, but fit where I see Tukufu ending up. That leaves 2 to play with... I have not taken my bloodline talent for this Tier. I really have to do that...so grumbling I take any 1 talent. 1 Left. If I finish with any 2 skills then I've skipped "Any 2 skill talents" and +1 to any defense ...

I had kinda filled that out just on the principle that as an Expert Archetype that I need to focus on getting the talents I need ... Coupled with the fact that when I have encyclopedic knowledge having low ranks in a knowledge skill is hurtful.

But the more I look at this...maybe this is the right choice. In a perfect world I'd have daredevil, leadership, & sabbatical (+1 to Disc)...I could pick those up in tiers 4& 5 without loosing anything.

Worth thinking about. Thanks

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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