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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:27 am 
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Nierite wrote:
It is highly likely that Khitani has SOME ports on the Messalian Sea as we have reference to their shipping. What we don't know is how many, or if these ports are their own or belong to tributaries or splinter states.


While this could be true it's also possible that Khitani only has ports on the North coast. Consider also that it's just a viable as a merchant to sail around the Fiendish expanse/far North to reach Censure. That's not a short or easy journey. It seems likely to me that the trip to the First City isn't short or easy either.

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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:48 am 
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::Looks at Map::
::Reads old adventures, like Blood Soaked Dawn::

Actually, it is NOT possible to take a ship NORTH to Censure. According to the map released by PCI on Henry's blog a LONG time ago, Censure is equivalent in latitude to southern Nova Scotia, Jappa is close to Cape Breton, Vengeance in the Lordship of Iron/Fiendish Expanse would be around the same latitude as Polar Bear Provincial Park in Ontario, and the furthest north landmass we know of Onara (the map mostly ends) is roughly equivalent to the contenental north coast of Canada (the Yukon, the Northwest Territory, and Nunavut.

How successful were people seeking the "Northwest Passage" in our world, even in modern times?

Also, in Blood Soaked Dawn we hear of the "Wall of Yarris" which matched the God's Wall at sea.

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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:53 am 
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Dave given that Tultipet is essentially inside the Blessed Lands (and covered in the book) should it be on the list? I have no issues with the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:16 pm 
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Nierite wrote:
::Looks at Map::
::Reads old adventures, like Blood Soaked Dawn::

Actually, it is NOT possible to take a ship NORTH to Censure. ...snip...

Also, in Blood Soaked Dawn we hear of the "Wall of Yarris" which matched the God's Wall at sea.


I don't think Blood Soaked Dawn is right. The old Codex and other sources refer to "the Great Trade Road" that comes through from Censure....that Trade is from the Khitani Empire to the known world aka the Silk Road.

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Eric Gorman

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:49 pm 
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Based on what we have learned from the Blessed Lands book, I believe that the trade route they are referring to are the two routes which pass through the Pilgrim's Pass in Milandir. From there, they split again, one going to Grand Coryan (presumably), and the other passes through Milandir, through Mil Takara, and into the Feldspar hills to Censure and Sicaris. The Great Northern Trade Route doesn't (from my read) refer to the trade route from KHITAN, but the trade route from Censure (far to the north of Coryan) to the rest of the world through the Hinterlands.

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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:09 pm 
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Respectfully that doesn't make sense, (nor did the alleged Wall of Yarris.)

You don't take a land detour north through two or three Countries to then ship good south (to Coryan the biggest market) when you can either just either turn South to Coryan or stop at a closer port like Yarvik or Naaeranth. Censure draws traders all the way from the League of Princess, it's one of the trade gateways of the world.

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Eric Gorman

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:46 pm 
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I think we are looking at different maps.

My view is that goods come down from Khitani and the West by sea to the harbour servicing the First City, and by land through the Fervidous Hills. There are two branches from there, running along the Vastwood and another along the Corlathians. These two meet at the Pilgrims Pass near Nevanne. From there, the trade route likely splits again, with one branch heading to Grand Coryan, and from there down the Corvus to Plexus, and from there the southern and western ports. The other branch from Navanne goes east to Naeraanth and other ports, and then by sea to the ports along the east coast of Onara. There is another land trade route that passes through Mil Takara and goes up through the Feldspar Hills servicing places like Erduk, Nol Dappa, Sicaris, and eventually Censure.

I think you are thinking the Silk Road in our world was a single ROAD from China to Rome. It was nothing of the sort. In fact, the name the Silk Road is a modern simplification of a complex trade network between the east and west. There were hundreds, if not thousands of routes on this "road" both at sea and by land, servicing every nation from Japan in the east, the turks and mongols in the north, Indonesia and Sri Lanka to the south, and the Roman Empire and Europe in the west.

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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:21 pm 
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I am well aware that the Silk Road followed many trails. I believe all the trade routes you suggest are there (though I think the road from Censure runs the other way).

I do not think that your alternitive explanation of the Great Trade route makes sense geographically. Censure has a permanent population of under 100,000 (and is the biggest city by far in the Hinterlands). It just isn't big enough to drive markets and pull goods up through Milandir and Almeric. It also doesn't make sense for an export port since there are multiple other ports where it would be faster and cheaper to get to along the way (Yarvik). It also doesn't make sense that House Zhuan has a strong Khitani influence (or that there is a Khitani Quarter in Censure) without direct Trade from Khitan. Further it's surrounded by the Pirate Isles, the biggest nest of scurvy sea dogs in the known world, who are preying on the SEABORNE goods. It doesn't make sense for the Pirate Isles to exist without a pile of rich trade coming into the region.

I no longer have the old Freeport mod on hand. My vague memory is that there was a something like a tsunami following the collapse of the Godswall but that might be wrong in my head. Regardless, even if the module says there's a sea wall blocking trade I think that's simply wrong.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:29 pm 
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I suspect that Cody B. and Eric G. are disagreeing only because of the limits of communicating by online posting, and if you could talk verbally and point at maps, you'd probably realize that you already mostly agree.

In broad strokes, my reading of the trade routes has long agreed with what I think Cody is saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Catalog of Western Lands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:34 pm 
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Nierite wrote:
Also, in Blood Soaked Dawn we hear of the "Wall of Yarris" which matched the God's Wall at sea.


I've wondered two things about the Wall of Yarris:
1. What path did it follow?
a. Did it go east-west extending the same line as the Gods' Wall? If so, how far east and west did it go? Did it ever curve north?
b. Did it instead go north-south just a little ways out from the coast with the net effect of boxing in the Infernal Expanse?

2. Did the recent restoration of the Gods' Wall at the end of the 6th Crusade of Light also restore the Wall of Yarris? If not, is anything now stopping the Infernals from just sailing to get around the Gods' Wall?

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Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
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