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 Post subject: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
Posts: 960
Location: Southwestern Ohio
If you were building this as a character which archetype do you feel would be best? I realize that depends on what you want to do, but I'm soliciting opinions here. My roommate already has an expert so were thinking of going divine. Can I make a decent combat character that route? I don't see her wearing heavy armor, that's not Cadic's thing. But wondering about how a martial archetype might work with increased access to martial techniques. I just wonder what people think might be the best route to Twilight Warrior which is her ultimate goal. That and maybe a dip into Obsidian Order as well. Thanks in advance for all input on this.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:59 am
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Location: Ontario, Canada
It really does largely depend on what you want to be able to do with the character. I myself just had a change of heart with a templar type character, and decided to go with the martial archetype after initially building him as an Expert.

One thing that I found helpful was to go through the book after getting a good idea of how I wanted the character to play, and writing down a list of talents that I needed to achieve that play style. If you want more Skill talents than Combat talents, you should take a close look at Expert. If there are more Combat talents there, then you should look closely at Martial.

At the end of the day, you could get there with any of the three builds, but each of them have their own perks:

Divine: Especially if you aren't too concerned about having a large selection of skills, with the Warrior Priest talent (p. 90, Codex of Heroes) you can make a divine caster who is capable of keeping up with the martial types in combat. On my divine character I decided that the larger spell selection was the superior option, but if you already have a healer in your regular group you may decide otherwise. The Initiate of the Gods background is the only one that offers a rank in a melee skill as well as arcanum (cants).

EDIT: I just noticed that I wrote 'skills' above when talking about the Warrior Priest (ta), I meant to say 'spells'. The talent limits the number of spells you gain each tier, in exchange for an additional point in a melee skill every time you take Divine Spell Casting (ta)

Expert: There has been lots of discussion on the forums about this archetype and using it for spellcasting, but my opinion is that it is a blank slate. This is a very versatile archetype which you can do many different things with. If you want a large number of skills, you should take a close look. Especially if you take one of the backgrounds that open up divine talents (Templar, Initiate of the Gods), it is fairly easy to get spell casting, if that is something you want to do with the character.

Martial: Similarly to the Expert archetype, you can get divine spell casting relatively easily, depending on your background. If you decide you want a different background, there are a number of paths that open up spell casting. Martial characters are the undisputed masters of hitting stuff. There is also absolutely no reason why you couldn't focus a martial character on ranged combat, or cloak-and-dagger combat. Martial does not mean you need to have the Huge talent and wear plate armour.

At the end of the day, it really depends on what you want to be doing with the character. If you envision your character as a primary spell caster who falls back on weapons occasionally, divine is probably your best bet. If you want to be a primary archer or backstabber, I would look at Martial or Expert.

Hope this helps.

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Akira Currier
aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Master of the Incandescent Flame (Martial 3.6)
aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.6)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


Last edited by acurrier on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
That does help, thank you. I will be having an extended conversation with my roommate about this soon which should clarify things.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:14 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
I think in the case of cadicians, you should certainly look at the spell support you are trying to get, It may be completely feasable to build a dual Psionic / Divine caster that really plays on the spell support aspect of the concept.

I would recomend building the character in the differnt ways you see as possible and make a tiers worth of advancments on the ones you think are really good candidates.

I personally would recomend martial + templar (or initate depending on your cadician paths) that can build a very strong character ( one of my favorite characters was built that way ) Expert is usually a very strong caster also if you use the tricks to build it. Divine archtype and I dont play well together (because I think divine is socially oriented and that expert does that better being a good example of why i dont like divine)

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Oswald val'Inares V, The Seeker of the Val'Inares
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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:02 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
Sorry I should have mentioned in the original post that this character will be a female Tultipetan Dwarf so Psionics alas is not an option. :(

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:06 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
Also she will likely be the most sociable of our three dwarves. John's a bloodthirsty gladiator type, I'm a HC of Neroth, all morbid and creepifying...leaves our Cadican to do the talking...and backstabbin... :)

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:28 pm 
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'Expert Initiate of the Gods' sounds like a good first draft point. (The racial Lore skill gets you the 3 ranks quicker, saving step 8 skills for other stuff). Quite a few 'social' talents are skill talents, so can really build upon the support aspects (Leadership etc).

'Martial Templar' as a second build. Strait-forward standard; should be able to start with Prestidigitation and DSC.I taken at Step 9. However social skills will only 2 ranks/tier.
Story-wise, 'Martial Exile' or 'Martial Dilettante' could work but will both require the Initiate Itinerant (pa), Sword Saint (pa) or Templar Itinerant (pa) as the first advancement to unlock DSC/Rudimentary Prayers. Gets a bit long-winded and talent intensive to do.

'Divine <anything>' as a third build. Definate build on social skills, keeping up Deceit. For a Cadican, plan to take LMT:Cunning Feint at Tier 2.

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LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.1
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 4
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1306
Mike,

If your plan is Obsidian Order on top of Twilight Warrior, then your paths likely look as follows:

T1 - Holy Champion of Cadic or Sword Sage
T2 - Twilight Warrior
T3 - Obsidian Order
T4 - Obsidian Order
T5 - Twilight Warrior

Using Sword Sage means your entire character concept up to the first Path is open. Heck, you could be a Arcane (Eldritch) Scribe if you really wanted to be and still make the progression work. Where things get tricky though is Obsidian Order as the requirements are high.

The simplest mechanical build for this is Martial with Sharp Eyes to help ensure you can keep up your Perception. One of your "Any 2 Talents" is likely to be Cloak of Cadic at tiers 3 and 4. This seems a build designed for all 5 Tiers of Stealthy plus probably One With the Shadows. As a non-Expert, that's a good chunk of your free talents. Obsidian Order though points to a fairly militant Twilight Warrior though.

I've played with this combo quite a bit. A lot of it comes down to where you want to focus your flavor.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Holy Champion of Cadic
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:23 pm 
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I've talked things over with Beth. She has a Expert character so she plans to go Divine with her HC of Cadic. She will also most likely be the face person in the group, although it's possible I might have some facility in that regard with my HC of Neroth. There are two related questions here. If she goes Divine and I go Expert what's the best build we should use. Again thanks in advance for any and all feedback.

One thing to clarify, we will both be taking Divine Spell Casting and casting Divine spells. I see my use of them for mainy buffs, some attacks and healing, but not at the level of my Divine character Haakon.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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