Edit: Added the Sheems. Don't know how they got missed either :-/

The Expert Archetype. I am not a fan of it at all. I find it inferior to the other Magic focused Archetypes. But I'm wrong in this matter. PCI has been very clear in the rulings for the Expert Archetype.

I know that many people have gone forward to make excellent Expert Divine casters, or Expert Arcane casters. But I can't help it. I just feel that this is wrong. So when I make an Expert character for my pre-gen pool, I never select Prestidigitation as one of my two Skill Talents.

The rules states "When a Talent is taken, you must meet all stated requirements, except when the Talent is acquired through an Archetype, Background, or Path."

I read this ruling to say "When a Archetype, Background, or Path says you get [Specific] Talent you get it regardless of requirements, when it says "Any Talent" you must meet the requirements."

I know I'm wrong.
But I take comfort in knowing when I told everyone who I play A:RPG with what I had learn on the forums about this ruling they couldn't believe me, because they read it the same way as I did. And we have yet to have anyone build an Expert character in that fashion.

Its a bad choice to make in creation anyway, as you don't get Unravel the Thread. The usual method is to take Adaptable at Step 2 to get the three skill ranks by Step 8 and Prestidigitation and Spell Casting together at Step 9.

some people have a hard time meeting the requirements of 3 ranks in a lore skill

Of all the Expert casters I've built, I've never taken Prestidigitation in step 2 - always in step 9. Step 2 is for Adaptable and a racial/foundation edge. On the other hand, most of my expert casters aren't dedicated casters so I often consciously do not take ASC/DSC in step 9 (so no unravel) - most of the time, it's not a problem but when you need unravel, you generally really need unravel.

The problem is for Arcane, there are *very* limited options for an Expert to take Arcane Spell Casting at character generation. There is I think 1 background (For Shamans) that give it.

John

There's no good reason that an Expert Archetype can't have 3 ranks in a Lore skill by Step 9.

My general opinion of Experts is they are one of the most flexible and strong Archetypes in the game. With 3 advancements they can get any 3+Passive Logic skills at 3 ranks per tier. That's typically 6 or 7. They can opt to specialize in particular skills at the beginning rather than have breadth because it's easy for them to add skills later at good ranks. They won't keep up with a hyper specialist caster of any build from a Talent perspective. But unless the caster is planning on taking more than 2 casting related Talents per tier, they can certainly keep pace. Even with adding more than 2 they can do it at an opportunity cost. They have the hardest time keeping up with a Martial Archetype, but if they selected Expert over it, it's because there is some other area of focus requiring 3 ranks / tier or lots of skill Talents.

The difference is that at a minimum, the Expert's secondary if not primary focus is always skills. If you want a more martial caster then a Martial archetype with secondary casting is probably best.

Even with that an Expert can with minimal effort keep a combat skill and casting skill maxed, and for one advancement take the best Martial Technique and A/DSC talent every tier with a ton of room left over for further specialization. The mechanical advantage can be seen in the poll Cody posted for characters. While a limited sample set, 40% of primary characters are Experts. The second most common is Arcane. I expect that's because you can't start with full casting as a Elder or Eldritch caster as an Expert. You can with Primal, Sarishan Sorcerer-Priest and Psionics now using the Undisciplined Psion from CoH.

Expert is a good foundation for a lot of characters. A bit of tweaking would help the balance between the Archetypes. I like that the system supports so many different ways to get to the same concept. Choices such as Archetype just help put the spin on it.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

@ Harliquinn: Which does fit the character that Arcane Spell Casting ability is a rare ability, while Divine and Primal is a learned or imbued ability.

I don't recall Arcane being 'rare', only dangerous. My understanding is that Eldritch was a 'learned' ability and 'Elder' is an imbued ability, so by that rationale there *should* be a Background to have learned them in your past.

John

This isn't a problem, it's a good design choice. CoH opened up Psionics meaning the only 2 Arcane casting options not available to starting experts are Eldritch and Elder. Honestly I think that the only way that Prestidigitation should grant Unravel the Thread and Move Object is if it is granted by the Arcane or Divine Archetype. Requiring a non-casting specific archetype to spend extra talents on them seems very appropriate. For one thing there's no requirement to ever take those spells. For another, there should be clear mechanical benefits for each Archetype selection.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul