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 Post subject: Weapon Tricks, Untrained Melee and Combat Aptitute (ta)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 927
Went and saw 300: Rise of an Empire on the weekend and decided to try building a spartan warrior.

Then I hit a mechanical problem. A proper build requires 5 combat skills (Balanced, Unbalanced, Polearms, Thrown and possibly Archery) to cover Weapon Training in Broadsword, Spear, Heavy Shield, Javelin/Pila and Bows.

To keep the attack rolls high enough up the tiers, Combat Aptitude (ta) reduces the skill investment for Melee (Untrained Combat), but to unlock the weapon tricks I need to invest skill ranks. Putting even 1 rank into the skills removes Combat Aptitutde as an option for that weapon!

This doesn't work for Ranged, as Untrained Combat isn't an option there anyway.

Anyway, its a huge skill investment, esp as at creation I can only get 4/2/2/1/1 or 3/3/2/1/1 spread in the ranks (making Combat Aptitude a better option for attack bonuses, as it removes two skills per advancement from the 'necessary' list).

The only way to make it work mechanically, is take Weapon Savant (pa) and be very careful in the skills/weapon training taken to maximise the benefits of Converge Weapon Style (ta).

Anyone have a better suggestion?

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks, Untrained Melee and Combat Aptitute (ta)
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1314
I was kind of curious about this myself. I would expect that a Weapon Savant that must take Combat Aptitude to improve how well they handle unfamiliar weapons and then adds Tools of the Trade granting them Weapon Training in all weapons as well as Converge Weapon Styles would be targeted for being able to use just about anything. The wording on Untrained combat is:

"If you are using a Melee skill untrained, you may use your highest trained Melee skill instead, but suffer a -5 penalty to all attack rolls."

At least one interpretation is if you're using your highest trained Melee skill in it's place then you have a number of skill ranks to apply (your primary) opening up the weapon tricks, but that you're still penalized with the attack roll pretty severely (even at -3 you're a tier behind). This would fit well with the apparent intent of the Weapon Savant. Is this the correct interpretation?

Thanks!

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks, Untrained Melee and Combat Aptitute (ta)
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
1) The Spartans, like the rest of Greece, viewed archers with disdain. They preferred slingers and spearmen as their "honorable" missile weapons.

2) for weapons, Spartans carried their Short Spear and Shield, with a Short Sword and Javalins as secondary weapons. As such, if you focus on Unbalanced and Pole arm, then have Balanced and Thrown as trained but lower (ie: +3/tier for first two, only +2/tier for the other ones) you could keep the investment more managable.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks, Untrained Melee and Combat Aptitute (ta)
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 2:26 am 
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I've looked at that previously; the wording is that you can't unlock the weapon tricks.

If it unlocked the weapon tricks (provided you had Weapon Training as well), that's a very nice boost to higher tier characters.

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LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Centurion Sword Sage II, T3.1
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 4
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks, Untrained Melee and Combat Aptitute (ta)
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:57 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1314
Personally I'm not trying to replicate a Spartan. Instead I'm looking at an Ujch'ki. I need to understand how Weapon Savant and more specifically the Melee: Untrained option is intended to work.

If there's a decision somewhere that even with the appropriate weapon training you aren't considered to have ranks to access weapon tricks with as part of Melee: Untrained, can someone reference it?

Thanks.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Tricks, Untrained Melee and Combat Aptitute (ta)
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am
Posts: 2046
I don't think there's been an official clarification, but since you're using a different Melee skill, I can't envision that the "use your highest melee -5" was intended to give you access to tricks in all the other Melee skills once you reached 8 ranks in one.

john

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