i realize that a cert can be put out saying whatever the writer of the mod/cert wishes and it becomes law but technically as it stands now the wielder of tyrfang should not be able to ever gain access to the legendary rune (if it has one on it), seeing as a legendary rune can only be put on a legendary item (per Fim I) i'm sure once the cert is out the appropriate rules will be spelled out for what it does and has access to and how it apples in terms of game mechanics

The discrepancy between item and rune quality was worth mentioning. It's probably best at this point to wait until certs start being sent out before getting too concerned.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

jeff if i had the sword i would not be so much concerned about the 12 ticks of not being able to be drawn (which appears to be a change from what is in Fim II), i'd be more concerned that a pacifist sword can't do any form of damage to the living (Fim II) and it is envious which at the con was stated that the wielder could not use any other weapon regardless of type and that included magic (again this is different that what is described in FiM II) this was stated by matt and i believe tony as well, during alicia's (sutuni's) tyraid once she was told what the sword did, ..

I believe (and hope) that the pacifist property was toned down a bit for the Con to be a bit different (while still being functional).

John

if thats the case then i would not say it has the pacifist flaw. but give it a name more in line with what tony had intended for it. that would prevent it from getting confused with the orginal flaw. while i know the certs are not out as of yet, if they were i think the wording "pacifist" for the sword would be confusing, seeing as its something completely different then what is in the FiM. i personally think that if the pacifist and envious flaws are gonna be used then they should be used as written with no funky interpretations added to it, thats just my opinion

john i get the feeling that you think that the flaw, as written is a bit much. is that correct?

In a home game, it would be fine since there would probably be an entire adventure or two around getting rid of the curse. However, in a living campaign, where you have no idea when or how you would remove the curse, it would be debilitating as written. Particularly in the way that the weapons were 'tied' to the characters.

That said, I like the idea of the cursed items and there were opportunities to figure them out. I don't think I've seen any that cripple a character beyond play (assuming the sword functions as described in the module and not according to the pacifist rules) and could make for some interesting character development.

John

i agree whole heartedly that the items allow for a great RP opportunity and part of me would love to have one or more for that reason, but i'm sure i'm in for my own version or a world of hurt for taking the teeth.
maybe i'm missing something as to what would make it so crippling as written. i mean yea doing no dmg to living creatures sucks but you have have a choice to switch to another weapon, which works out with the envious flaw (FiM version) which says it won't allow any other magical item of the same kind to be used (with the key being magical and like typed weapons), unlike what was initially stated at the con, which was no other type of weapon period could ever be used. what i think is partially crippling at least for 12 ticks is not being able to use any weapon including magical spells (if you have access to spells). i mean there is a potential with the way it was written for the con that the PC could be out of the fight, just running around for up to 24 ticks if they roll ass for init. where as the FiM version just says the weapon cant be drawn unless someone else draws first within 60ft which is a huge distance. now i could be down with a version that states the sword cant be drawn unless the pc was actively being targeted by an attack of some sort or the distance from which a baddie is from the PC is reduced, that way there is the chance for the PC to take some dmg before drawing

now i will admit that my current knowledge of the flaws as intended for the con come via word of mouth, and not first hand knowledge, but that mouth was an integral part of getting the con off with little to no hitches in my opinion

adam

Well I meant debilitating if it didn't allow any other weapon (which is what was in the mod). We discussed what can be done with 12 ticks, and it included Challenge, healing, buffing, casting spells which aren't attacks, etc.

John

I am Okay with my present understanding of the weapon. It is a curse and should be such as one. Based on what I was told, you cannot take any offensive action for your first 12 ticks. However, it will not allow you to use another weapon. There are other things that you can do during that time and I have figured out how to integrate it into my character and am looking forward to playing it.

If on the the other hand it is a truly pacifistic weapon that will do no damage any of the time, and it refuses to allow you to use any other weapon, I might as well retire this character right now.

I trust that Tony and the campaign staff are not setting out to destroy people's characters for such a trivial issue and so I will wait to see the actual cert.

Jeff

i guess i should have clarified on the spell thing...my bad.. as we were informed at the con no offensive spells were allowed, so healing and buffing would be ok, but nothing else. however the PC would first have to have access to the spells and if they didn't then they would have to spend their rank ups to do so. same could be said for the challenge talent, which is not as harsh seeing as it does not have any prereq's other then using a lvl up to gain if you don't have it. maybe its just me but seems like it is railroading a PC into taking very specific talents at lvl up, which they may not normally be so inclined to do. think of a purely melee martial character, while challenge may not be so bad getting the spell casting ability would be quite difficult and time consuming to achieve, without a complete rewrite. the same could be said for a ranged martial guy with no ranks in melee and the idea of spell casting or challenge is just a bit far fetched to him. the non buffing/ healing caster would be in for it too, only way they would be able to do any of proposed ideas would be to spend talents to either learn a new spell, gain X number of new buffing/healing spells when they tier up or again do a complete rewrite, of character and spells. so in a way even the options discussed could be debilitating for a min of 13 ticks or require a long term change in character concept (which may not inherently be a bad thing and can lead to some great RP). i don't really think its fair to a PC to say hey you have to change your concept to cater to this cursed weapon. if you have to do that then the PC is no longer center stage but the item, which should only be a supporting character, is.

to all readers please don't take from my thoughts that i think that there should be no tryfang or cursed items, i just feel that when you make a fundamental change to something that was not really broken, you actually break it. i'm just an advocate of leaving the flaws for this particular cursed item as they are written in the book. with that if i felt that anything needed to be changed with the flaws, and im not saying it should, it would be with the fact that pacifist does no dmg to living. but again that can be over come by switching out weapons ( which if you use the con version as was initially stated would not be possible), so its not really that big of an issue

on a side note the PC could pull a Matt Flinn and run around all the NPCs for 12 ticks hoping that they will take free strikes against him (only person i have ever seen that can make that tactic work)...hahah

adam