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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:48 pm
Posts: 144
Little bit of extra notes: we don't know the origin of the name Holryn. Holryn has Finnish origins, if google is to be trusted, but that's about it. We don't know if Holryn was a person, like how the Original Families were named after a founder, or if it was a family of group, like the Baucisz. We don't know any legends associated with the names, no records of their creation, unlike some of the other families which at least have folklore surrounding them. The val'Holryn are just. . . there. They've always been in Tralia since forever, they have always been characterized by their loyalty, nobility, and their willingness to stand up for what is right. They have never been Imperators, Kings, or otherwise lead nations. They have had their own little Duchy, and they've never moved out of it. The family has been so generic that it's really hard to pin down what makes them special. Anyone could have done what they did, so why them? What makes them show up at every major turning point in history? The Imprisonment of Leonydas, the Auxunite Rebellion, the First Crusade, the Childrens' Crusade, the Secession of Milandir. . . Why them? I assume, like everything in Arcanis, it has an answer, just not yet apparent to us. So, I'll keep looking until we find it. And I hope that we solve it soon.

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Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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I'm hoping others can provide sources or corrections as I have certainly not done the scholarly excavations that many here have especially as it relates to the Blood War and the val'Holryn family. My recollection is that part of what made the major bloodlines major was the consolidation of abilities within a single bloodline family name. This has led to some variations in manifestations (val'Virdan vs. val'Emman) as well as some differences in physical characteristics (two apparent sub-branches of the val'Ossan family).

For the val'Holryn to be able to manifest each of the major bloodlines fully would imply that either

1. the family was formed towards the end of the Blood War after the various consolidation happened or
2. the creation of the val'Holryn family was an integral part of how the bloodline consolidation was facilitated in the first place.

I fully expect there are other options not included in the above, and the second could manifest in a number of different ways.

One thing I don't recall at the moment is where the val'Holryn are trained at least in terms of their psionically awakened members. Do they have enough masters to be able to train all of the traditions of the major bloodlines individually or are those who are awakened sent to train with the respective families whose powers they manifest? I was under the impression that each family guards their secrets. If so, how does that interact with the val'Holryns?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:48 pm
Posts: 144
Hat wrote:
One thing I don't recall at the moment is where the val'Holryn are trained at least in terms of their psionically awakened members. Do they have enough masters to be able to train all of the traditions of the major bloodlines individually or are those who are awakened sent to train with the respective families whose powers they manifest? I was under the impression that each family guards their secrets. If so, how does that interact with the val'Holryns?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


Well, as the Codex of The Mind has not been released yet, I can't say for certain, but as of 3.5 in Psionics Unbound when a val'Holryn trains under another family, the swear an oath (presumably a Sarishan Oath) of loyalty, and effectively become a member of that family. So a val'Holryn who trains to become a Hunter of The Silence becomes a member of the val'Virdan family for all intents and purposes. Now, nothing says that they can't betray their oaths, but we haven't seen this yet. I had an idea of the val'Holryn sending out indoctrinated members to all the Val Families, then utilizing the Sarishan Oathbreakers to cancel their oaths, then recall all of their members, effectively stealing all other family traditions to make into their own. I can't speak for the consequences of such an action, but the option is there.

As for the Masters of Mimicry, it is an exclusively val'Holryn Tradition (whether or not they aren't willing to share the Tradition, or that others can't learn it is another story entirely). Any member of the family can train in this Tradition, regardless of their Bloodline Powers.

I assume that it works similarly for Bloodline Talents as well, with the younglings being trained either by an elder with the same Bloodline Powers or by the family they copy. As the val'Holryn haven't manifested their own Bloodline Powers (yet), we can't say that they developed their training regimes all on their own: antagonizing any of the Big 13 would cripple the families ability to train its members.

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With regards, signing out.


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Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:48 pm
Posts: 144
Hat wrote:
I'm hoping others can provide sources or corrections as I have certainly not done the scholarly excavations that many here have especially as it relates to the Blood War and the val'Holryn family. My recollection is that part of what made the major bloodlines major was the consolidation of abilities within a single bloodline family name. This has led to some variations in manifestations (val'Virdan vs. val'Emman) as well as some differences in physical characteristics (two apparent sub-branches of the val'Ossan family).

For the val'Holryn to be able to manifest each of the major bloodlines fully would imply that either

1. the family was formed towards the end of the Blood War after the various consolidation happened or
2. the creation of the val'Holryn family was an integral part of how the bloodline consolidation was facilitated in the first place.

I fully expect there are other options not included in the above, and the second could manifest in a number of different ways.


Well, the designation of Major or Minor is more political that anything. In 3.5, Minor Bloodlines possessed less Bloodline Talents than the Major ones. That later got changed to possessing less land and political power than the other families.

When the val'Holryn became a Major Bloodline, it wasn't because they unlocked new powers (probably), it was because they received large amounts of territory during the Milandesian Secession in 803 I.C, and became second only to the Crown of Milandir (therefore, second to the val'Ossan) in terms of political power.

The other "weird" Val Families, like the Virdan, Emman, and Ossan have some strange stuff going on in the background that we haven't gotten into yet. Hell, I'm pretty sure that the val'Emman are a Minor Bloodline right now, due to their lack of territory and political power. I assume that once the mess in Dar Zhan Vor has settled down and, assuming everything goes well, the val'Emman will move in, reclaim their ancestral territory, and become a Major Family (there's a reason they're a part of the "Big 13").

The val'Ossan are more ambiguous, but I'm certain they'll figure it out on their own. (At least they don't have another, more powerful Val Family trying to kill them.)

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With regards, signing out.


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Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:15 am 
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Location: Portland OR
Hat wrote:
...For the val'Holryn to be able to manifest each of the major bloodlines fully would imply that either

1. the family was formed towards the end of the Blood War after the various consolidation happened or
2. the creation of the val'Holryn family was an integral part of how the bloodline consolidation was facilitated in the first place.

I fully expect there are other options not included in the above, and the second could manifest in a number of different ways.

One thing I don't recall at the moment is where the val'Holryn are trained at least in terms of their psionically awakened members....
As Vandom mentions we don't know when the val'Holryn formed and took their place on the grand stage of Arcanis. Prince Volthar val'Holryn (who opposed the Sword of the Heavens) is still the earliest figure we have. But since he was a "Prince" we know that the val'Holryn family had prominence and power before he appeared in Arcanis' history.

So where do they come from?

If the val'Holryn are descended from the valinor who sided with the Other, or are otherwise connected to the stolen power of the Pantheon of Man (by the Other) ... then they could have slipped in anytime in the First Imperium after the Gods of Man departed. Probably they would have needed a period of chaos to slip through the cracks.

If the val Holryn are somehow the product of experiments during the Blood War we have their point of Origin. I would note that if you were the product of experiments in Nishanpur and escaped to flee southward, the Tares River makes an excellent natural boundary, which is where Tralia just happens to be located.

The val Holryn train their own members psionically. It's unclear how much they know of other families techniques. As Vandom says, members of the val'Holryn do sometimes train with the other families but only after swearing fealty. The val'Holryn have an earned reputation for being honorable, but it's possible over long years that some of their members do pass these secrets back to Tralia. Somewhat on point its with noting that Henry talked about Bloodline "archetypes" and his resistance to make a "pyromancer/firestarter" archetype solely be the province of any individual family. Henry expressed an interest that psionic powers have a different feel than just "more-ish" bloodline powers. So for example the secret style of the val'Borda is not going to be the manipulation of shadows but instead the ability to reach into a targets fears (exploiting their inner darkness as it were).

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:48 pm
Posts: 144
With all the conspiracy and secrets aside, let us move to speaking of the future of the val'Holryn family.

As of writing, in 1075 I.C, in two years time, Duke Konrad val'Holryn I will make a pilgrimage to the First City. Konrad's fiancee, the granddaughter of Duchess Eldora val'Dellenov, is reportedly a woman of great beauty, and even greater faith. So much so, she refuses to wed until Konrad makes his holy pilgrimage.

Also, can we get an official statement of her name? I'm sure some of use val'Holryn and val'Dellenov players would like to know.

From an IC standpoint, it is indeed a happy future for the family, and I do hope that Konrad bonds with his Mastiff by this time.

OOC, though, I can only watch and wait. If we are going by the 1 Arc = 1 Year model, it will take until Arc 5 for this plotline to be resolved. Until then, perhaps we could investigate the Lost Temple of The Hidden Star, or finally find Walker Grey. We'll just have to wait and see what we're given.

_________________
With regards, signing out.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


Last edited by vandom43 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:50 pm 
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Eldora val'Dellenov was ... a dangerous piece of work. What is it about the val'Dellenov? All the val families are power hungry to some degree. But the val'D always seem power-hungier. Even by Arcanis' standards. I guess Aconia was nice. But she survived assassins so i bet she wasn't a milksop either...

I hope Duke Konrad has a happy future...but I wouldn't hold my breath. Apples and trees.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:10 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
val Holryn wrote:
Eldora val'Dellenov was ... a dangerous piece of work. What is it about the val'Dellenov? All the val families are power hungry to some degree. But the val'D always seem power-hungier. Even by Arcanis' standards. I guess Aconia was nice. But she survived assassins so i bet she wasn't a milksop either...

I hope Duke Konrad has a happy future...but I wouldn't hold my breath. Apples and trees.


Well, the Val'D are also the only matriarchal val family that we know of. The val'Holryn seem very Patriarchal. I wonder what their religious proclivities are, I assume since they don't have a natural affinity toward a specific god that they don't tend to be a power in any specific faith.

Earlier it was mentioned that if they were descended from val of Umor that might be the source of their copying ability. But that doesn't really work, does it, because we now know from WoH (word of Henry) that they can't copy Ul powers. If Val'H got their power from umor absorbing power from all the gods, then they should be able to copy any bloodline, including the Uls.

It is reported that Uls did not take part of the bloodwar. It is possible that taking part in the bloodwar may be a possibility for having your powers copied by the val'H. Additionally, it would seem to me that families that did absorb the powers of another family would be the "Major Families" and should have twice as many (or more if they absorbed more than one line) bloodline powers as the Uls.

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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:46 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1473
Hello,

Well, the val'Dellenov family have held the throne and that kind of power is intoxicating. I suppose the val'Borda or the val'Sheem would be just as power hungry if they had a history of ruling Coryan.

As for Aconia, she's a tragic figure, imo. Taller and much less demure than her rivals for the affection of Calcestus. Think Gwendoline Christie.

Being pushed and manipulated by her mother and family to out seduce a seductive val'Sheem and then all of a sudden in comes the exotic Queen Alezha.

When the val'Dellenov matriarchy see their plans crumbling due to this outsider's interference, they ensorcel Calcestus into seeing Aconia as Alezha, who proceeds to have intimate relations with her, as he's done before, though to Aconia, she's being raped in a dream, because she has been drugged herself. Even then, she puts up a fight and finally pushes off the Emperor, but not before being impregnated by him.

Then, she's forced into hiding, from both her own family and Alezha's assassin's, and gives birth to Calmemnon.

Eventually, things turn around for her. She weds Emperor Scipio and bears him three more children, 2 boys and a girl. Then tragedy strikes when her first born, still a child, kills her daughter. Then, even as she is struggling with this devastating blow, she must plead for the life of Calmemnon.

It is here that her mind begins to erode and crack under so much pain, suffering, and pressure.

A woman who was never really her own person, as she was always the daughter, then the consort, the wife, and finally, the mother.

Then after many years as the grieving mad wife of the Emperor, she died, finally knowing peace.

Very sad. Poor Aconia deserved better than the part she played in our play.

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Henry Lopez
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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1473
vandom43 wrote:
As of writing, in 1075 I.C, in two years time, Duke Konrad val'Holryn I will make a pilgrimage to the First City.


Actually, the current year in the campaign is 1077 I.C. So it's game on. What will happen when Duke Konrad val'Holryn appears in the First City during it's recent turmoil?

Quote:
Also, can we get an official statement of her name? I'm sure some of use val'Holryn and val'Dellenov players would like to know.


Nope. Not yet. :-)

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Henry Lopez
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